Just because these are truly awful people doesn't mean they can't like out-of-this-world-amazing science fiction.
krapp · 4h ago
Conservatives apparently like Star Trek. A series that has worn its socialist and progressive politics on its sleeve for decades. A series whose entire ethos stands in defiance of everything they believe in, and represents a utopia they would consider Hell on Earth. I guess because if you don't pay attention, which they must not, it seems like it's just about militarism and conquest, and thrilling spaceship adventures with pew pew lasers. IDFK. As the article points out, people like Musk and Zuckerberg miss the entire point of the things they read. They probably watch Star Wars and root for the Empire.
I miss the days when nerd culture wasn't so infested with Nazis and incels and influenced by fascist billionaire douchebags.
mrguyorama · 1h ago
Mel Brookes understood this very well.
Essentially, morons cannot see past the very superficial surface details. They don't see how Star Treks universe claims all this good comes from literal socialism. They see cool looking spaceships.
It's like how morons do not see the Star Wars Empire as obvious Nazi propaganda ripoffs in their aesthetic, they think they are cool and have cool uniforms and do cool marching.
The ONLY way to ensure morons don't outright celebrate the horrific (but maybe fashionable) things you show in fiction is to ensure that it always comes with a side of making an absolute mockery of the fascists.
You have to laugh at them, to their face. It's the only thing that works.
rsynnott · 2h ago
It's particularly bizarre because one of Banks' nastier villains, Joiler Veppers, is basically the worst stereotypes of a tech billionaire (probably _not_ specifically Musk, given the timing) turned up to 11.
ThrowawayR2 · 6h ago
If Banks says that the Culture is "hippy communists" it must be so but I'm not sure I ever got that impression though. Physical objects and simulated experiences are simply too cheap to meter in that post-scarcity world such that there's no benefit to be gained from excess possession. It's like saying breathable air is communist.
I suspect the broligarchs are more attracted to the concept of all-powerful and all-knowing Minds magnanimously dispensing goods and services to the species under their benevolent(?) management. Minds have the means of production, not the people.
rsynnott · 2h ago
Hydrogen Sonata is largely set in _another_ post-scarcity lower-case-c culture who still have money and property and stuff, apparently largely on a ceremonial basis; the Culture characters involved see this as pretty weird. The Culture is fairly explicitly socialist (in the sense that the means of production isn't owned by companies or individuals).
I'm fairly certain someone from another culture actually uses the _word_ socialist (rather sneeringly), to describe the Culture in one of the books. Possibly Veppers?
> Minds have the means of production, not the people.
This is... arguable (and kind of comes up in the books). However it certainly _wasn't_ the case for the early Culture (the Culture predates the capital-m Minds).
GeoAtreides · 5h ago
As the one who submitted the post, I disagree with the title change, as "elon musk" and "socialist" are discussion poison
my original title: Why do the broligarchs love The Culture series?
would have been more conductive to interesting discussions
WalterGR · 4h ago
The HN guidelines include using the original title of the article.
GeoAtreides · 4h ago
they recommend it, but there's slack
especially when it comes to nurturing interesting discussions
ThrowawayR2 · 4h ago
"broligarchs" isn't exactly a neutral word either, even if it is rather accurate.
GeoAtreides · 4h ago
I was not going for neutrality, but minimizing the chances of a reflexive downvote and trying to nurture a discussion about The Culture (definitely not about Elon Musk or socialism; especially as The Culture is not socialist, but anarchist)
incomingpain · 6h ago
>Elon Musk had already turned Twitter into a right-wing echo chamber since purchasing it in 2022,
Is it though? I talk with liberals and NDP frequently. I really wish I didnt see people like harry sisson or krassenseins which i dont care about. Not my country, but they are popular so the algo gives them to me.
Not much of a right wing echo chamber if they are forcing left wing foreign people on others.
>Jeff Bezos has revamped the Washington Post’s editorial section to build support for “personal liberties and free markets.”
I hadnt heard that happened. I very much approve.
>It was a massive show of power that revealed how possible it is for these wealthy men to remake our culture in their own image,
Having your newspaper make the case for personal liberty and free markets is remaking your culture?
JohnFen · 6h ago
> Having your newspaper make the case for personal liberty and free markets is remaking your culture?
You're taking him at his word that's what he's doing. I don't think that's what he's doing at all. What he's doing is attempting to limit the conversation to pro-corporatist sentiments.
incomingpain · 5h ago
>You're taking him at his word that's what he's doing. I don't think that's what he's doing at all. What he's doing is attempting to limit the conversation to pro-corporatist sentiments.
Like I said, I hadnt heard he even did that. It is fact checked true that he did say this.
I dont read the washington post, it's a foreign newspaper with very little interest to me. So I am happy to take him at his word.
chatgpt analysis right now suggests that the prohibition against posting opinions that are against personal liberty and free markets hasnt changed much, has been done, and is not overtly corporatist. Providing multiple examples in relation to the tariffs and trade wars that express multiple different viewpoints.
salawat · 5h ago
Ding, ding, ding.
rsynnott · 2h ago
> your newspaper
See, that's part of the problem. Historically, quality broadsheet newspapers are not _supposed_ to really be influenced by the owners. Like, arguably even Murdoch does better on this than Bezos with the WSJ (though _only_ with the WSJ, mostly); the WSJ broke the Theranos story, for instance, and Murdoch was one of Holmes's dupes.
billy99k · 6h ago
"Elon Musk had already turned Twitter into a right-wing echo chamber since purchasing it in 2022"
I disagree. I look at this frequently and Twitter has right and left wing posts pretty equally. Many people think it's a 'right-wing echo chamber' because non-left leaning posts were censored for many years.
Bluesky is an authoritarian nightmare that only allows left-leaning posts and pre-bans people for their content on other platforms, before they even post. It's really telling, since this the founder is the same person that ran Twitter before Elon.
pavel_lishin · 6h ago
> pre-bans people for their content on other platforms, before they even post
[citation needed]
rsynnott · 2h ago
They're probably getting confused about banlists; awful Twitter people are sometimes pre-emptively banned on _those_. But that's not Bluesky itself, obviously.
I miss the days when nerd culture wasn't so infested with Nazis and incels and influenced by fascist billionaire douchebags.
Essentially, morons cannot see past the very superficial surface details. They don't see how Star Treks universe claims all this good comes from literal socialism. They see cool looking spaceships.
It's like how morons do not see the Star Wars Empire as obvious Nazi propaganda ripoffs in their aesthetic, they think they are cool and have cool uniforms and do cool marching.
The ONLY way to ensure morons don't outright celebrate the horrific (but maybe fashionable) things you show in fiction is to ensure that it always comes with a side of making an absolute mockery of the fascists.
You have to laugh at them, to their face. It's the only thing that works.
I suspect the broligarchs are more attracted to the concept of all-powerful and all-knowing Minds magnanimously dispensing goods and services to the species under their benevolent(?) management. Minds have the means of production, not the people.
I'm fairly certain someone from another culture actually uses the _word_ socialist (rather sneeringly), to describe the Culture in one of the books. Possibly Veppers?
> Minds have the means of production, not the people.
This is... arguable (and kind of comes up in the books). However it certainly _wasn't_ the case for the early Culture (the Culture predates the capital-m Minds).
my original title: Why do the broligarchs love The Culture series?
would have been more conductive to interesting discussions
especially when it comes to nurturing interesting discussions
Is it though? I talk with liberals and NDP frequently. I really wish I didnt see people like harry sisson or krassenseins which i dont care about. Not my country, but they are popular so the algo gives them to me.
Not much of a right wing echo chamber if they are forcing left wing foreign people on others.
>Jeff Bezos has revamped the Washington Post’s editorial section to build support for “personal liberties and free markets.”
I hadnt heard that happened. I very much approve.
>It was a massive show of power that revealed how possible it is for these wealthy men to remake our culture in their own image,
Having your newspaper make the case for personal liberty and free markets is remaking your culture?
You're taking him at his word that's what he's doing. I don't think that's what he's doing at all. What he's doing is attempting to limit the conversation to pro-corporatist sentiments.
Like I said, I hadnt heard he even did that. It is fact checked true that he did say this.
I dont read the washington post, it's a foreign newspaper with very little interest to me. So I am happy to take him at his word.
chatgpt analysis right now suggests that the prohibition against posting opinions that are against personal liberty and free markets hasnt changed much, has been done, and is not overtly corporatist. Providing multiple examples in relation to the tariffs and trade wars that express multiple different viewpoints.
See, that's part of the problem. Historically, quality broadsheet newspapers are not _supposed_ to really be influenced by the owners. Like, arguably even Murdoch does better on this than Bezos with the WSJ (though _only_ with the WSJ, mostly); the WSJ broke the Theranos story, for instance, and Murdoch was one of Holmes's dupes.
I disagree. I look at this frequently and Twitter has right and left wing posts pretty equally. Many people think it's a 'right-wing echo chamber' because non-left leaning posts were censored for many years.
Bluesky is an authoritarian nightmare that only allows left-leaning posts and pre-bans people for their content on other platforms, before they even post. It's really telling, since this the founder is the same person that ran Twitter before Elon.
[citation needed]