The magic of compound interest: buying an original Magna Carta for $27 and selling it for $21 million 80 years later is equivalent to achieving 18.5% compound interest. Roughly the same rate and duration as Warren Buffett's investing career, with a smaller starting value.
syncsynchalt · 4m ago
Unfortunately gains are only real if they're realized — and Harvard will never sell their copy.
When I visited London a few years ago I went to the British Library and stumbled into their collection (and it was incredibly impressive). I had no idea they had two original Magna Cartas. If you have a chance to see the document at Harvard, you should! It's really something.
davikr · 4h ago
$450 when corrected for inflation.
tim333 · 3h ago
In 1945 they had the gold standard at $35/oz so $27.50 would have been 0.7857 oz of gold currently worth $2540.
jltsiren · 2h ago
In 1945, US GDP per capita was almost $1600. Using your conversion factors, that would be almost $150k today. The actual number is something like $85k. I don't think Americans are that much poorer today than they were 80 years ago.
hilsdev · 2h ago
You’re starting to get into the theories of how they hide true inflation
rileytg · 1h ago
i’m american, what’s the price in big macs?
qingcharles · 1h ago
Four myocardial infarctions.
andrei_says_ · 1h ago
How is GDP per capita a useful measure in the presence of almost-trillionaires?
Depending on which city they sleep in, Bezos or Musk make all local citizens multimillionaires. Per capita. Statistically.
actionfromafar · 1h ago
This is very true. One should look at some select percentiles instead, IMHO.
standeven · 3h ago
Is this a reasonable metric though? No one was buying books in 1945 with gold.
jonhohle · 2h ago
Gold is considered to have relatively consistent value over time.
Median home price in 1940 Boston area was $3,600 or 180oz gold. Today the median home price is 215oz of gold in the same area (or $670,000). In terms of gold, house prices are up 20%. In terms of dollars, 18000%.
A new car still costs around 13oz of gold.
Real inflation of fiat is easy to obscure for political reasons. That’s much harder to do with the market value of gold.
Aurornis · 2h ago
> Gold is considered to have relatively consistent value over time.
Not really. It has fluctuated a lot. You can pick starting and ending points a few years apart and come up with very different results relative to actual inflation.
> A new car still costs around 13oz of gold.
Now take this idea and average it across a large number of different items and you arrive at inflation statistics, which are better than using 1 commodity or 1 purchasable item as a benchmark.
boroboro4 · 1h ago
> Now take this idea and average it across a large number of different items and you arrive at inflation statistics
If only it was as simple: you will need to introduce weights between different items, and account to the change of those weights too. Also gold isn't just commodity, it's monetary commodity.
If you use official inflation dollars you get 1$ 1940 ~= 23$ 2025. You can see how magnitude wrong it is for housing or cars in the example above.
Here's food prices from 1940 diner: > A 25-cent platter, 5-cent hotdog, and 10-cent hamburger. Also doesn't really work with official inflation dollars either. And again works much better with gold prices.
kemotep · 34m ago
Median household income in the 1940’s seems to be something like $2,600. Using your inflation figure that is ~$59800 in today’s dollars.
2024 there seems to be an estimated ~$75,000 median household income.
Housing and cars are also apples and oranges seeing that the average family size and sq footage for even 50’s homes is completely different than today. Today fewer people are living in significantly larger spaces than was normal back then.
thatcat · 1h ago
Using core, required assets actually makes more sense considering recurring purchases tend to change over time.
scythe · 32m ago
>Not really. It has fluctuated a lot. You can pick starting and ending points a few years apart and come up with very different results relative to actual inflation.
I think he's talking about really long periods of time. It's true that gold is an extremely volatile investment, whose price can seemingly quadruple or be cut in four at any time. But if you look over periods where the price of gold increased by more than 20x, this becomes a lot less important when you try to estimate things like the average rate of inflation. If you work with a ten-year moving average of the price of gold the problem is also reduced. Gold is the only metal whose sulfide is unstable under standard conditions (101.3/293.15).
In other fields, this is called a "low-pass filter".
ttoinou · 1h ago
Gold was a standard for a reason
kurthr · 41m ago
Naw. Just look at the plots over the last hundred years. Lately, it's become just as financialized at bitcoin or any of the other "stores of value".
It's a better metric than the estimate of the dollar inflation. Gold standard was in use until 1971
koolba · 3h ago
If I were selling books in Europe in 1945, I’d much prefer gold to Reichsmarks.
AtlasBarfed · 2h ago
desilvering of coins was in the 1965 coin act.
So if they paid in dimes/quarters/ half dollars /dollars, they were paying in silver
hilsdev · 1h ago
All cash was convertible to gold at a fixed rate, so more or less they were
heelix · 2h ago
Saw some of the examples on holiday last month when we were in Salisbury. It was really neat to be that close to one of the ones sent out. Before that time, I'd never actually read the Magna Carta, which really was an interesting read.
anthk · 4h ago
Magna Carta reminds me of the "Seven parts" from Alphonse X of Castille, nearly in the same era.
Also, for its day, it was kinda open-minded and progressive, and Alphonse X was a damn nerd as he ordered to compose a book of games like chess and more tabletop games like Nine Men Morris (Libro de los juegos/The Book of Games).
alephnerd · 3h ago
If you ever have the chance, you absolutely should visit the libraries and museums on campus. It's a treat.
I especially loved walking around Widener Library and marveling at the murals and that original Guteberg Bible
burnt-resistor · 1h ago
If you're willing to brave the American customs gulag, Stanford's free Cantor museum has very historically and artistically significant bits. No ID needed there, of all places.
alephnerd · 54m ago
> Cantor museum has very historically and artistically significant bits
Amen to that. Love Stanford. Cal has a ton of great stuff too.
> the American customs gulag
What does that mean? I've been to Cantor multiple times and nothing seemed out of the ordinary security wise.
soperj · 3h ago
I tried going in, but couldn't without a student id.
qingcharles · 1h ago
Can a student take you in as a +1?
alephnerd · 3h ago
Ah yea, security has gotten much tougher now. There are a couple open-access museums though like the Art Museum, the Near East Museum, the Scientific Instruments one in the Science Building, and a couple others.
All in all, loved the museums and history, but detested Harvard. I would have been a better fit at a more middle class college like Cal, Stanford, or MIT.
perihelions · 4h ago
It may be that Harvard students no longer habeant corpus, but they do habent a corpus of "habeas corpus" corpses.
spondylosaurus · 4h ago
I haven't Latin'd in forever, but here's an attempt:
Harvardis alumnis corpus non habent sed quidem corpus de "habeas corpus" habent.
(Let's just say "Harvard" is a third declension noun because why not.)
skissane · 2h ago
> Let's just say "Harvard" is a third declension noun because why not.
Given Harvard maintains the tradition of Latin addresses (the Latin Salutatory), I’m sure they have an official position on what their name is in Latin. Wikipedia cites this article but not sure if it is online: Hammond, Mason (Summer 1987). "Official Terms in Latin and English for Harvard College or University". Harvard Library bulletin. Vol. XXXV, no. 3. Harvard University. pp. 294–310.
I spent a year as a student at the University of Sydney (Australia). I roughly remember how to say in Latin “University of Sydney Library”, because they stamped it on all their old library books (something like “Bibliotheca Universitatis Sidneiensis”)-I expect old books in Harvard’s library may be stamped in Latin too
fsckboy · 2h ago
when it comes to latin, i must decline to decline for you, but there's this:
First declension! Never would've guessed. Also smart to dig up a deal to look for Latin inscriptions :)
kevin_thibedeau · 3h ago
Pig Latin would be more fitting for the current climate.
fsckboy · 2h ago
orcuspæ atinuslæ
tootie · 3h ago
Veritas
skirmish · 3h ago
Did you mean: Veritas socialis?
PaulHoule · 4h ago
Reminds me of that time I found a book at my Uni library that was in the rare books collection that I could only read in the reading room and then saw there were many copies on AMZN for 50 cents + shipping.
tomjakubowski · 2h ago
When a librarian says a book is rare, they don't mean that the information inside is scarce. Rather, they mean that there are few surviving examples of that particular printing or edition of manufacture.
BizarroLand · 2h ago
For instance, you can get a first edition copy of Trilby (which was basically the 1890's Twilight Saga) for a few hundred bucks or less as long as you're not picky about the condition.
Next you'll wonder why people make such a big deal about the Mona Lisa when you can buy your own version at the Louvre gift shop for $25.
standeven · 3h ago
Was the university exaggerating the value, or did you pick up some valuable books for cheap?
dleary · 2h ago
If a work is older than 200 years and worth reading, then original editions are going to be valuable.
But it will also be out of copyright so the cost of getting a “new” copy is basically just the cost of printing.
PaulHoule · 1h ago
This was a 1970s paperback by someone who attracted attention for his work on spiritual matters and sold a lot of books but didn't leave an organization behind so you can find his books at used bookstores.
Not rare at all but some people might say it has some prurient interest (talks about his sexual misadjustment) so maybe they think it has to be limited access or maybe people will steal it or something. (The same library kept Steal this book in a restricted area of the stacks but let me check it out.)
asciimov · 2h ago
Likely a different edition, or reproduction.
dralley · 4h ago
It's not an original so much as an official copy. The copies, dated 1300, were created 85 years after the signing of the original Magna Carta in 1215.
Although I suppose the argument is that if you re-affirm the same text several times, that each one is legitimate.
>First issued in 1215, it put into writing a set of concessions won by rebellious barons from a recalcitrant King John of England — or Bad King John, as he became known in folklore.
>He later revoked the charter, but his son, Henry III, issued amended versions, the last one in 1225, and Henry’s son, Edward I, in turn confirmed the 1225 version in 1297 and again in 1300.
But still, it would be weird to say that a copy of the Constitution produced during the Presidency of Abraham Lincoln and re-affirmed by the govt was "an original" even if it otherwise had pedigree.
hughdbrown · 1h ago
Came here to understand exactly this point. It made no sense to me that a document created in 1215 would have a copy made in 1300 that was referred to as an original.
jvanderbot · 4h ago
"Original copy?"
dvh · 4h ago
"genuine replica"
metalman · 3h ago
whatever, umm, "sanctioned forgery"
but exactly how is it a "copy", as the Magna Carta was hand written, with 4 signed copys still in existance today.
the item under discussion was created 85 years after the magna carta, and presumably, everyone who was involved with the original, was dead
so this thing is just old, but has no direct connection, it's even listed as an "amended version" of the actual original document,
which means of course that some ancient controversy and disagreement, is lurking for our
perusal and picking sides
queuebert · 4h ago
Copies of the Magna Carta are becoming unaffordable for working-class families.
varispeed · 4h ago
Working-class families should work just a little bit harder and maybe cut down on avocados and Netflix.
dylan604 · 3h ago
The sad thing is, cutting down on the streamers does make an actual dent in outgo. Each platform is at least $9USD, and subscribing to them all at this point is easily $100/month. Obviously, some are higher than $9, but cutting the cord to save money tends to come out higher than the dreaded cable bill.
Avacodos be damned
vondur · 4h ago
Look, we aren’t barbarians here.
huijzer · 4h ago
Yeah Harvard is doing good stuff. I also love listening to Stephen Kotkin. He uses the Socratic method a lot so he just goes a bit from here to there and lets you make up your own mind. Really great historian if you ask me. Very calming to listen to too IMO.
burnt-resistor · 1h ago
Ezra Klein would sneer at the red tape regulations imposed by a limited monarchy because they "know better" than us plebs how to wield absolute power properly. /s
sirmoveon · 3h ago
Are we as a society have become that gullible? Seems more like someone's trying to find a somewhat credible excuse to launder the stolen goods.
llm_nerd · 3h ago
>>Harvard Law School bought its version from a London legal book dealer, Sweet & Maxwell, which had in turn purchased the manuscript in December 1945 from Sotheby’s, the auctioneers.
>>In the 1945 auction catalog it was listed as a copy and with the wrong date (1327) and was sold for £42 — about a fifth of the average annual income in the United Kingdom at the time — on behalf of Forster Maynard, an Air Vice-Marshal who had served as a fighter pilot in World War I.
>>Air Vice-Marshal Maynard inherited it from the family of Thomas and John Clarkson, who were leading campaigners in Britain against the slave trade from the 1780s onward.
Pretty convoluted path to launder stolen goods.
jb1991 · 2h ago
Amazingly, the woman in one photo is not even using gloves to touch this ancient document.
pimlottc · 2h ago
Modern practice recommends using clean, ungloved hands for documents in most circumstances. Gloves reduce dexterity, making tears more likely.
No comments yet
Depending on which city they sleep in, Bezos or Musk make all local citizens multimillionaires. Per capita. Statistically.
Median home price in 1940 Boston area was $3,600 or 180oz gold. Today the median home price is 215oz of gold in the same area (or $670,000). In terms of gold, house prices are up 20%. In terms of dollars, 18000%.
A new car still costs around 13oz of gold.
Real inflation of fiat is easy to obscure for political reasons. That’s much harder to do with the market value of gold.
Not really. It has fluctuated a lot. You can pick starting and ending points a few years apart and come up with very different results relative to actual inflation.
> A new car still costs around 13oz of gold.
Now take this idea and average it across a large number of different items and you arrive at inflation statistics, which are better than using 1 commodity or 1 purchasable item as a benchmark.
If only it was as simple: you will need to introduce weights between different items, and account to the change of those weights too. Also gold isn't just commodity, it's monetary commodity.
If you use official inflation dollars you get 1$ 1940 ~= 23$ 2025. You can see how magnitude wrong it is for housing or cars in the example above.
Here's food prices from 1940 diner: > A 25-cent platter, 5-cent hotdog, and 10-cent hamburger. Also doesn't really work with official inflation dollars either. And again works much better with gold prices.
2024 there seems to be an estimated ~$75,000 median household income.
Housing and cars are also apples and oranges seeing that the average family size and sq footage for even 50’s homes is completely different than today. Today fewer people are living in significantly larger spaces than was normal back then.
I think he's talking about really long periods of time. It's true that gold is an extremely volatile investment, whose price can seemingly quadruple or be cut in four at any time. But if you look over periods where the price of gold increased by more than 20x, this becomes a lot less important when you try to estimate things like the average rate of inflation. If you work with a ten-year moving average of the price of gold the problem is also reduced. Gold is the only metal whose sulfide is unstable under standard conditions (101.3/293.15).
In other fields, this is called a "low-pass filter".
https://www.5yearcharts.com/historical-gold-price-chart-how-...
But a new car today is vastly different from a 1940s car, so different that it's nonsensical to use it to compare purchasing power of gold.
Except that the gold price fluctuated by 50% within the last 30 years: https://goldprice.org/gold-price-history.html
So if they paid in dimes/quarters/ half dollars /dollars, they were paying in silver
Also, for its day, it was kinda open-minded and progressive, and Alphonse X was a damn nerd as he ordered to compose a book of games like chess and more tabletop games like Nine Men Morris (Libro de los juegos/The Book of Games).
I especially loved walking around Widener Library and marveling at the murals and that original Guteberg Bible
Amen to that. Love Stanford. Cal has a ton of great stuff too.
> the American customs gulag
What does that mean? I've been to Cantor multiple times and nothing seemed out of the ordinary security wise.
All in all, loved the museums and history, but detested Harvard. I would have been a better fit at a more middle class college like Cal, Stanford, or MIT.
Harvardis alumnis corpus non habent sed quidem corpus de "habeas corpus" habent.
(Let's just say "Harvard" is a third declension noun because why not.)
Given Harvard maintains the tradition of Latin addresses (the Latin Salutatory), I’m sure they have an official position on what their name is in Latin. Wikipedia cites this article but not sure if it is online: Hammond, Mason (Summer 1987). "Official Terms in Latin and English for Harvard College or University". Harvard Library bulletin. Vol. XXXV, no. 3. Harvard University. pp. 294–310.
I spent a year as a student at the University of Sydney (Australia). I roughly remember how to say in Latin “University of Sydney Library”, because they stamped it on all their old library books (something like “Bibliotheca Universitatis Sidneiensis”)-I expect old books in Harvard’s library may be stamped in Latin too
sigillum academiae harvardianae in nov ang
https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/55900/55996/55996_harvard_seal.h...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trilby_(novel)
But it will also be out of copyright so the cost of getting a “new” copy is basically just the cost of printing.
https://www.amazon.com/Discovering-Secrets-Happiness-Intimat...
Not rare at all but some people might say it has some prurient interest (talks about his sexual misadjustment) so maybe they think it has to be limited access or maybe people will steal it or something. (The same library kept Steal this book in a restricted area of the stacks but let me check it out.)
Although I suppose the argument is that if you re-affirm the same text several times, that each one is legitimate.
>First issued in 1215, it put into writing a set of concessions won by rebellious barons from a recalcitrant King John of England — or Bad King John, as he became known in folklore.
>He later revoked the charter, but his son, Henry III, issued amended versions, the last one in 1225, and Henry’s son, Edward I, in turn confirmed the 1225 version in 1297 and again in 1300.
But still, it would be weird to say that a copy of the Constitution produced during the Presidency of Abraham Lincoln and re-affirmed by the govt was "an original" even if it otherwise had pedigree.
Avacodos be damned
>>In the 1945 auction catalog it was listed as a copy and with the wrong date (1327) and was sold for £42 — about a fifth of the average annual income in the United Kingdom at the time — on behalf of Forster Maynard, an Air Vice-Marshal who had served as a fighter pilot in World War I.
>>Air Vice-Marshal Maynard inherited it from the family of Thomas and John Clarkson, who were leading campaigners in Britain against the slave trade from the 1780s onward.
Pretty convoluted path to launder stolen goods.
https://ask.loc.gov/preservation/faq/337286
https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/handling-historic-colle...
https://info.gaylord.com/resources/for-the-glove-of-preserva...
> We're often led to believe that wearing gloves is essential when handling precious books. In fact, it poses a serious risk of damaging them.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/our-cause/history-heritage/...