It will be interesting to see next April. The government has been slashed for very modest sums, even in aggregate. People's tax bills will be no lower, and there's a good chance that the deficit will be higher.
I have no idea how much attention people actually pay to the final sum. It's never the same any two years in a row even if you made exactly the same salary. You just pay whatever number shows up on the bottom line (or deposit whatever check arrives).
No comments yet
russell_h · 6h ago
I don't quite understand the goal of this project.
It says they're preventing 15,000 tons of emissions, but there are all kinds of ways to prevent or offset greenhouse gas emissions for under $10/ton. So at a glance this project appears to be allowing almost 2 million tons in preventible emissions in order to... pay people to bike around and collect food scraps?
0xfaded · 2h ago
The actual cost to retire a 1 ton co2e carbon credit should be $70-$80. A lot of these $10 programs do not actually retire the credit and sell it to somebody else, so you are in effect subsidizing the credit.
TBF, this may still enable a legitimate project that is viable at $80-90 that is not at $70-80. So if you want to support a particular tree planting effort go for it.
nickff · 7h ago
This seems like an interesting project, but it’s entirely within one state; shouldn’t the state be funding it? What makes this a good program for federal support?
DangitBobby · 7h ago
So to qualify for federal funding any experiment/project must occur in at least two states? I am skeptical you would reduce waste with that rule.
sillystu04 · 6h ago
This is why Lockheed Martin has some part of the F35 supply chain in nearly every US state.
nickff · 6h ago
The F-35 is used for defending airspace, a doubly-federal duty. Spreading the spending so widely is a purely political gambit (I believe pioneered by NASA with the Space Shuttle).
MOARDONGZPLZ · 7h ago
I think their point is not worth addressing on its merits. I downvoted them because while the article itself focuses on an $18M grant in RI, it also plainly states that this is part of $2B program that's aimed at all states, tribal lands, and territories. With a kagi search that took less time than the poster took to write the comment, I was able to further find a whole site dedicated to the grant along with fact sheets on same, here: https://www.communitychangeta.org/about-community-change-gra...
nickff · 6h ago
Thanks for posting the link, but it doesn’t make the program any more federal. Packaging a bunch of independent, local programs together under one umbrella doesn’t change the fact that they’re local programs. This really seems like the sort of ‘pork’ program everyone was complaining about a few cycles ago, albeit with an environmentalist sheen.
MOARDONGZPLZ · 6h ago
The entire framework is federal, the money comes from the fed, and the implementation is via fed grants given to local programs to achieve a broader result. It's a very federal program.
nickff · 6h ago
It really seems to me that the only federal part is the allocation and distribution of funds. Put another way, what would a less federal program look like? Could you describe a program with less of a federal nexus, while still being federally funded?
rat87 · 4h ago
Yes it does. Paying for a land delegating work to locals is one of the most common patterns for federal action.
Pork is good. Pork helps grease the wheels of government, it helps things pass and helps facilitate compromise.
apical_dendrite · 6h ago
That's how most federal programs work. Congress appropriates the money, a federal agency defines requirements, and then states, cities, or non-governmental entities apply for grants.
For example, my city is trying to build a bridge. There's a particular federal program for this (which will probably get killed by Trump), so the city applied for funding and now it's their job to build the bridge.
nickff · 6h ago
I agree that many federal programs are made up of many local components, though transportation has often been viewed as affecting interstate trade and military logistics. Food waste in Rhode Island does not seem to have a federal nexus.
ars · 6h ago
To qualify for federal funding it should occur in ALL states, or be federal property (like interstates).
If it's not worth funding locally, it's not worth funding federally.
apical_dendrite · 6h ago
Usually these programs DO occur in all states, it's just that instead of having one large national bureaucracy that uses the same approach everywhere, the federal government defines requirements and then local organizations and governments apply for grants.
In fact, that's how the interstates work too - the state transportation agencies apply for highway funding from the federal government and then manage the projects.
ars · 6h ago
I wasn't really talking specifically about this program, just kind of in general.
Although I'm not really sold on even the approach you describe - it seems like it's just a way to funnel taxes from local people -> federal -> back to local.
Skip the middleman?
dummydummy1234 · 1h ago
The idea is to redistribute wealth from areas of the country with wealth to areas are poorer.
California tax payers support West Virginia infrastructure.
Inevitably some states are wealthier than others, the federal government acts as a balancer of this. This can improve outcomes in poorer states (education, building up new industries, local economies etc).
Ideally, it also provides a counter balance for changing economies, where there are inevitably winners and losers. Many industries are geographic centered, and having the ability to adjust for acute downsides in one area benefits the whole country overall in the long-term.
That being said, the specifics of individual programs are up to debate in Congress (it's their job).
btown · 6h ago
There was actually quite a heated debate on this during the New Deal in the 1930s, where federal regulations and federal public works projects were often scoped to have highly localized impacts.
Wickard v. Filburn, for instance, upheld in 1942 that the federal government could use the Commerce Clause to regulate even a single farmer's output, on the basis that its impact on pricing, viewed in the aggregate, could affect interstate commerce: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/317us111
If the federal government wants to use its resources to reduce food waste, in service of a nationwide fiscal policy to allow household funds that would otherwise go towards food waste to re-enter the economy, that's arguably largely within its purview.
Because there's no national infrastructure or standards, action has to begin locally, if this is indeed the goal.
> “In one sense, this is a problem derived from America’s incredible achievements in agriculture and technology,” said [Trump's] EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler at an April 9 [2019] event, going on to recount a story about former Russian President Boris Yeltsin’s surprise when he saw the bounty of a Texas grocery store in 1989. “Together, we can promote American prosperity and turn wasted food into solutions that can feed America’s communities, fuel our economy and maximize our resources.”
Whether or not specific pilot programs like the one mentioned in OP are the optimal way to implement that goal, of course, is a different question entirely. But at least they were trying to start somewhere.
(Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.)
nickff · 6h ago
I’m not disputing the legality of the program, just the prudence of federalizing it.
metalman · 6h ago
I tried to undersand how someone with half a wheelbarow load of food scrap and leaves(picture in.article) talked there way into 20 million dollars to compost waste @$1681.8/ton, which is a lot lot more than the wholsale cost of a many kinds of NEW food, but then maybe thats why the plug got pulled.
0xfedcafe · 4h ago
just one more grant!
ars · 6h ago
This title doesn't seem true. It would not have drastically reduced food waste, from the description in the article this program would have done nothing at all except add local jobs.
This is an example of a program that should be defunded.
Buzzword bingo:
* environmental justice
* local jobs
* compost
* emissions
* connecting people to food and soil
* community garden
I have no idea how much attention people actually pay to the final sum. It's never the same any two years in a row even if you made exactly the same salary. You just pay whatever number shows up on the bottom line (or deposit whatever check arrives).
No comments yet
It says they're preventing 15,000 tons of emissions, but there are all kinds of ways to prevent or offset greenhouse gas emissions for under $10/ton. So at a glance this project appears to be allowing almost 2 million tons in preventible emissions in order to... pay people to bike around and collect food scraps?
https://carboncredits.com/carbon-prices-today/
TBF, this may still enable a legitimate project that is viable at $80-90 that is not at $70-80. So if you want to support a particular tree planting effort go for it.
Pork is good. Pork helps grease the wheels of government, it helps things pass and helps facilitate compromise.
For example, my city is trying to build a bridge. There's a particular federal program for this (which will probably get killed by Trump), so the city applied for funding and now it's their job to build the bridge.
If it's not worth funding locally, it's not worth funding federally.
In fact, that's how the interstates work too - the state transportation agencies apply for highway funding from the federal government and then manage the projects.
Although I'm not really sold on even the approach you describe - it seems like it's just a way to funnel taxes from local people -> federal -> back to local.
Skip the middleman?
California tax payers support West Virginia infrastructure.
Inevitably some states are wealthier than others, the federal government acts as a balancer of this. This can improve outcomes in poorer states (education, building up new industries, local economies etc).
Ideally, it also provides a counter balance for changing economies, where there are inevitably winners and losers. Many industries are geographic centered, and having the ability to adjust for acute downsides in one area benefits the whole country overall in the long-term.
That being said, the specifics of individual programs are up to debate in Congress (it's their job).
Wickard v. Filburn, for instance, upheld in 1942 that the federal government could use the Commerce Clause to regulate even a single farmer's output, on the basis that its impact on pricing, viewed in the aggregate, could affect interstate commerce: https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/317us111
And in this Rhode Island situation, Congress did indeed authorize this exact type of highly-localized program: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/7438
If the federal government wants to use its resources to reduce food waste, in service of a nationwide fiscal policy to allow household funds that would otherwise go towards food waste to re-enter the economy, that's arguably largely within its purview. Because there's no national infrastructure or standards, action has to begin locally, if this is indeed the goal.
This interstate commercial framing, in fact, was at the center of the first Trump administration's food waste initiatives, which laid the groundwork for this program: https://www.wastedive.com/news/trump-administration-unveils-...
> “In one sense, this is a problem derived from America’s incredible achievements in agriculture and technology,” said [Trump's] EPA Administrator Andrew Wheeler at an April 9 [2019] event, going on to recount a story about former Russian President Boris Yeltsin’s surprise when he saw the bounty of a Texas grocery store in 1989. “Together, we can promote American prosperity and turn wasted food into solutions that can feed America’s communities, fuel our economy and maximize our resources.”
Whether or not specific pilot programs like the one mentioned in OP are the optimal way to implement that goal, of course, is a different question entirely. But at least they were trying to start somewhere.
(Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.)
This is an example of a program that should be defunded.
Buzzword bingo:
* environmental justice * local jobs * compost * emissions * connecting people to food and soil * community garden
One magical program does it all!