It's interesting he decided to go this way rather than put it into a sustainable trust and just trickle money out indefinitely.
I suspect he believes that these causes need shock therapy. To eradicate a disease, you are better off doing it all in one go.
I also wonder if he looks at something like the Ford Foundation and realize in the long run that any charitable trust will just turn into an overstuffed political advocacy group that does little to advance his charities or even his legacy.
ghaff · 32d ago
Was just talking with some folks last weekend about this in a different context. Open-ended foundations can easily have their missions drift and also become essentially sinecures for an executive director.
Ford Foundation is a great example of what can happen. Olin is a good example of a foundation that was set up to dissolve after some length of time.
thedailymail · 31d ago
Mission drift can sometimes go in a positive direction. The Howard Hughes Medical Institute, for example, functioned primarily as a tax evasion vehicle while Hughes was alive. After his death, the HHMI was in deep trouble with the IRS and sitting on an endowment of ~$5 billion. So it appointed former NIH director Donald Fredrickson to turn it into an actual research funding organization and mend relations with the tax authorities and research community.
You may know this already, but both Olin Foundations are good examples, actually. I believe the John M. Olin foundation dissolution plans were specifically in response to the Ford foundation's drift. The F. W. Olin foundation (John's Father) coincidentally dissolved in the same year, but that was due to largely accomplishing their original goal of endowing engineering buildings at colleges, and pivoting to founding a new engineering college entirely.
ghaff · 31d ago
I don't really know the details but an organization I was/am involved with did get money from the "Olin Foundation" but didn't know specifics beyond that. Yeah, one of my fellow board members observed that Olin was pretty much the canonical example of a foundation that set itself up to be dissolved.
ivape · 31d ago
I've always wondered about the Gates and Buffets commitment about giving away their wealth in death. It assumes that the people of the future are more worthy of it than the people of now. Whatever poverty will exist in the future also exists now. I suspect they've thought about this too, hence the acceleration. If anything, addressing the issues now has a chance of reducing the issues in the future.
There's always something to learn from everyone. Elon reiterated one thing frequently - "We have to get to Mars soon because I don't want to be dead before it happens" (paraphrasing). If this philosophy is used for the right purpose, we can get some cool things happening sooner. Recent events also show that there are people who are not interested in being charitable at all, so it's even more of an imperative.
owebmaster · 31d ago
> It assumes that the people of the future are more worthy of it than the people of now
I don't think that is the assumption. The assumption is that people will treat them well for planning to give away their money without them needing to live their life without their precious wealth.
lechatonnoir · 31d ago
This is a weirdly conspiratorial idea to my eyes. Not because people don't have unsavory hidden motivations that they give good excuses for, but because this doesn't really seem to confer any benefit.
The benefit of wealth is your capacity to spend it. If they don't spend it in order to give it away on a future date, they have lived their lives without it.
You can say that they are selfishly maintain optionality while they are alive, but that's a less biting critique, I guess.
card_zero · 31d ago
I might spend millions easily enough, but I might struggle to spend millions more on top of that. Bill Gates has a hundred thousand millions. Personally I probably wouldn't spend it because figuring out how to spend it sounds like hard work. I think this idea was first explored in trashy 1902 comedy novel Brewster's Millions, but is somewhat true.
ghaff · 31d ago
Yeah, multiple opulent houses seems like a lot of work. Even if I hire people to manage seems like a lot of head-space. I can stay in really nice hotels and eat in nice restaurants for a lot less money and effort. OK, maybe a private jet or at least NetJets or whatever the current thing is.
At a much smaller scale I've thought about a small city place and concluded it just wasn't worth the effort vs. renting at a nice time of the year.
more_corn · 30d ago
Not hard at all. His goal is to eliminate unnecessary deaths.
1) stack rank causes of unnecessary deaths (malaria, malnutrition, etc)
2) identify places where people die those deaths because nobody gives a shit about them
3) start giving a shit
In fact the acceleration seems like it’s happening because it has suddenly become far easier to identify unnecessary deaths because someone who shall remain nameless here lied about fraud in US Aid and cancelled all their funding leaving millions of people to die unnecessarily deaths.
Gates decided to step up and prevent as many of those deaths as possible in his lifetime.
ghaff · 31d ago
Many things take time. And it may be good to fund them. But outsized contributions don't necessarily make them happen that much faster.
conception · 31d ago
I think the phrase is something like you can’t get a baby in a month if you have nine women.
bdhe · 31d ago
> There's always something to learn from everyone. Elon reiterated one thing frequently - "We have to get to Mars soon because I don't want to be dead before it happens"
I understand the idea of learning from everyone, even those whose values I strongly disagree with.
But after learning about everything Elon has done in the public sphere, would this statement be more likely just narcissism rather than a deep and inspiring virtue?
Aeolun · 31d ago
That doesn’t really matter though? The end result is we’ll get to Mars faster than we’d otherwise do.
bdhe · 30d ago
I think it matters a great deal! If that result comes at the expense of - let's say - progress fighting climate change because Elon also ended up defunding and destabilizing a lot of science with the same instincts that got him to proclaim his mission of going to Mars, it is not obvious that we only ought to focus on the end result, and even if we do, that only one set of end results need focus.
We may be closer to going to Mars, an extremely inhospitable place, at far greater expense than simply making the world we were evolved to survive in a little better.
blooalien · 31d ago
The way things are going here on Earth (thanks in part to Musk and "Glorious Leader" Trump), we ain't makin' it to Mars before global resource wars completely cripple all our scientific aspirations, including becoming a "space-faring" species. It's all wasted effort at this point, because nobody seems willing to do what it's gonna take to ensure that humanity has any future at all.
No comments yet
BobbyTables2 · 29d ago
I very much would like to see a human on Mars very very soon —- only because I really hope it will be Elon.
gwern · 32d ago
He can have other motivations. Between 2020, 2024, Mackenzie Bezos & Laurene Powell Jobs, the deeply unimpressive philanthropy of the Buffett children, and his own divorce, a very rich philanthropist has excellent reasons to aim for the foundation being liquidated in his lifetime, and not handed off to administrators like, yes, the Ford Foundation or Harvard...
(And then, of course, given his enthusiasm for AI, there is a major question of whether 'keeping your powder dry' is a huge mistake - one way or the other.)
calepayson · 31d ago
I'm an AI skeptic when it comes to business cases. I think AI is great at getting to average and the whole point of a business is that you're paying them to do better than average.
But I think current AI (not where it might be in a few months or years) is absolutely amazing for disadvantaged people. Access to someone who's average is so freaking cool if you don't already have it. Used correctly it's a free math tutor, a free editor for any papers you write, a free advice nurse.
This sucks in a business setting but I could see it being incredible in a charitable setting. When businesses try to replace someone great with something average it sucks. But if you're replacing something non-existent with something average, that can be life changing.
I'm an AI skeptic and I can empathize with his AI enthusiasm given the problems he's trying to address (or at least professes to be trying to address).
hn_throwaway_99 · 30d ago
> But I think current AI (not where it might be in a few months or years) is absolutely amazing for disadvantaged people. Access to someone who's average is so freaking cool if you don't already have it. Used correctly it's a free math tutor, a free editor for any papers you write, a free advice nurse.
Interestingly, I think AI, if its biggest boosters are correct, will end up being an absolute disaster for disadvantaged people.
The fact is that the vast majority of people in the current world are able to survive by selling their labor. If AI makes it so that, say, 50% of the world's population is no longer able to survive by selling their labor, that leads to massive serfdom, not some sort of Star Trek utopia.
And the thing that is shocking to me is that I haven't seen any (like, absolutely zero) credible explanation from AI boosters of how this dystopian end state is avoidable. I've either heard misdirection (e.g. yes, I agree AI is amazing at what it can do, but that doesn't explain how people will eat if they don't have jobs), vague handwavy-ness, or "kumbaya talk" about stuff like basic income that seems to completely ignore human nature.
I would absolutely love to be convinced I'm wrong, but that would need to start with at least something approaching a rational argument as to how the benefits of AI will be more equally distributed, and I have yet to hear that.
lazyhummingbird · 31d ago
I know a few of the leaders designing and developing Microsoft’s AI applications for the Gates Foundation.
I think you’re on the right track, and, alongside the scale of service (reaching more people and more topics with an average level of advice or recognition), there’s a second component to it: scale of analysis. The newly possible solutions that AI advances have created include more than those famous models that answer broad prompts with art, copy, or code.
They also include focused, sometimes incomprehensible tasks which can only be done at an impactful scale due to the creation of deep learning and advances in compute-inexpensive language understanding, computer vision, and audio analysis:
A network of affordable, durable, solar powered, LoRa meshed audio sensors analyzed by a model to diagnose changes in the biodiversity of the Amazon and other rainforests (via ambient bird and animal calls across thousands of species). Visual analysis done on a cheap camera network estimates herd sizes of larger, silent animals.
A model that analyzes satellite imagery to evaluate major shifts in the industrial use of land, including tracking the national development of solar farms to evaluate nations receiving new energy grants.
A social analysis bot that tracks the rapid introduction of propaganda narratives or intentional agitation by foreign state actors (Russian bot farms), including building a map of associated IPs. Sadly, the social networks basically shrugged when given this data, so Msft gave it to LEAs.
These things are being done at a scale that would be incomprehensible to an organization of people.
Scale of analysis tasks are still, IMO the smartest use of AI today, despite the fashionable trend of GPT and the promise of AGI. A few models to spark ideas:
Recognition tasks with a dictionary too deep for human experts to grok when scaled up - like identifying thousands of wildlife
Recognition tasks with a timescale too rapid or sudden for human attention - Amazon Prime Vision predicting a QB sack in a football game before it happens
Recognition tasks when human vigilance or sensitivity would miss an occasional or slight occurrence - measuring eccentricities in electrical signals, vibrations, etc. to predict the failure of industrial equipment
calepayson · 31d ago
This is a wonderful and detailed response. Thank you!
bigfatkitten · 31d ago
> a free advice nurse.
It is good for the other use cases, but it is the worst possible source of advice on subjects where the user has no expertise, and where there are serious health or safety consequences for getting it wrong.
calepayson · 31d ago
I totally agree in situations where folks have access to an advice nurse. Always prioritize an expert over an llm.
Same goes for the others, if you have the means I think you should get a tutor or an editor as well.
However, if you’re choosing between nothing and an llm then the llm starts to become a great option.
I used to work rescue and if I had caught one of my coworkers asking an llm how to treat a patient I would have flipped.
But if I had rolled up to an incident and some Good Samaritan was trying to help out by using an llm that would be awesome!
jpc0 · 31d ago
Most first aid can be broken down very basically.
Call a professional for help. Are they breathing, is their heart beating, are they bleeding.
If you haven’t called someone that can actually save the persons life no amount of first aid will help.
Unfortunately unless something is obviously preventing breathing as someone untrained theres not a lot you can do if they aren’t breathing.
Heart beating is pretty easy, chest compressions…
Bleeding again, pressure, and a lot of it to try to prevent the bleeding.
I would want to check what an AI response is to some situations but as long as it just tackles those cases it can probably only do more good than harm.
Id be more worried some good samaritan would start cutting people to try to “get an airway” or some nonsense. That would significantly increase mortality rates…
calepayson · 30d ago
My time in rescue gave me a ton a faith in good samaritans. To try to do something in an emergency is productive 99% of the time (imo).
The only case I've experienced where it wasn’t was when someone in our area was actively listening in in emergency channels and trying to preempt ambulances. The issue was that they had training in the basics but often went past that in care they provided. Something that I believe is not covered by Good Samaritan laws.
I’m much more worried about folks like that than people who find themselves in an emergency and are trying to help.
bigfatkitten · 31d ago
I'd rather see a Good Samaritan being talked through CPR or whatever by a dispatcher who's trained to give that advice over the phone, rather than having a hallucinating LLM tell them to do something deadly.
jpc0 · 31d ago
I believe the situation here is more a matter of they don’t have a dispatcher to guide them.
In some rural area of Africa they came across a car crash. Two people hop out and assist while a third drives off to notify someone to send emergency help.
An on device LLM might be very useful there depending on what it says…
bigfatkitten · 31d ago
If the LLM tells the untrained passer-by to do a tracheotomy, it's not going to go well.
calepayson · 30d ago
Emergencies can freak people out but not once in my eight years in rescue have I ever encountered a scenario where a random bystander might do as drastic of an intervention as as a tracheotomy.
I have shown up at scenes where people have googled what to do though and, you know what, it was super helpful.
If someone is dumb enough to perform a tracheotomy because an llm, google, or a passerby told them to. The issue isn’t any of those factors. That person is just so incredibly dumb as to be a danger to everyone around them.
bigfatkitten · 30d ago
I've been a firefighter for 22 years. I'm sure neither of us will ever cease to be amazed at what otherwise intelligent people will do when they're in a panic.
People also do amazingly dumb things because a piece of software with a tone of authority told them to do it, even when they're not under duress. Look at the number of people who find themselves stranded or dead because they uncritically followed the directions of a navigation app, and who weren't in a panic state when they did it.
calepayson · 30d ago
Me too!
Wowfunhappy · 31d ago
> The whole point of a business is that you're paying them to do better than average.
...this is a really interesting idea, but I'm not sure if it's entirely true?
If we're talking about a business's core competency, I think the assertion makes sense. You need to be better than your competition.
But businesses also need a whole lot of people to work in human resources, file taxes, and so on. (Not to mention clean bathrooms, but that's less relevant to the generative AI discussion.) I can certainly imagine how having a world-class human resource team could provide a tire manufacturer with a competitive advantage. However, if those incredible HR employees are also more expensive, it might make more sense to hire below-average people to do your HR and invest more in tire R&D.
calepayson · 31d ago
Completely agree with this.
I think my sense is that the zeitgeist around AI (at least in business circles) is much more “The only way to ensure our continued survival is by embracing ai in all our core competencies” than “your tire company is going to have some adequate hr for a great price.”
An example that springs to mind is the arms race between tech CEOs over who can have more of their code base written by llms.
It’s amazing tech and it seems like it’s being marketed for all the wrong things based off of some future promise of super intelligence.
I really liked the article posted on here a week or two back along the lines of AI is a normal technology. Imo, the most sane narrative I’ve read about where this tech is at.
cdkmoose · 27d ago
Right up until those below average HR people break the law or allow managers to break the law and the company gets in trouble and no scientists or other R&D people want to work there.
Wowfunhappy · 16d ago
I would really hope "not breaking the law" doesn't require an "above average" HR team. As long as it isn't bottom of the barrel you should be fine.
...if I was really cynical, I might say that one of the reasons you might want a "world class" HR team is in order to break the law, or come really close to the line, without getting caught, in a way that increases profits.
BobbyTables2 · 29d ago
If only so many companies didn’t have below average executives…
biophysboy · 32d ago
His strategy also may have changed due to recent events affecting foreign aid...
To be clear, I'm speculating; it does seem plausible that he is trying to slow the bleeding even if he knows full well it won't stop it.
fallingknife · 31d ago
If you have more money than anyone else on earth, the highest leverage use of that money is going to be to fund projects that require more capital than anyone else can afford to fund and that governments are unwilling to fund. That way you know you are actually adding to the opportunity set and not just displacing someone else. The difficult part is, of course, deciding which of those projects that only you can fund will actually be a good bet, but that doesn't change the fundamental calculation. Not sure if that's Gates' strategy, but it would make sense if it was.
conception · 31d ago
Actually the highest leverage would be to bribe electable politicians to get governments to be willing to fund your projects. It’s remarkably cheap apparently to do.
robocat · 30d ago
Numbers:
> but I expect the [Gates] foundation will spend more than $200 billion between now and 2045
Top 10 individuals in the world worth $1.77 trillion
The U.S. government has spent $ 3.57 trillion in fiscal year 2025
So Gates spends 10 billion/year which is an astonishing 0.2% of US government budget
aDyslecticCrow · 31d ago
Economies of scale could vastly benefit a lot of charity work, but few charities can attain sufficient scale to achieve that. There is an unfortunate amount of overhead and administration in charities that do not directly benefit the cause.
In that sense, I suspect targeted and planned large investments into charities with scalable plans is a lot more efficient than years of trickle donations.
adverbly · 32d ago
Who manages that trust? There is not shortage of short term needs, and short term value added can compound over time. I think this is a fine approach. He's Bill Gates - his legacy is ensured regardless.
light_triad · 31d ago
The decision can be read in the larger political context. There was some controversy a while back on certain directions the Foundation took like the project on sanitation (aka the toilet challenge) and the backing of charter schools. Regardless of one's opinion of those, he is taking a stand and drawing a line in the sand.
Cthulhu_ · 32d ago
Isn't the Gates Foundation effectively a trust in itself? I'm no economist, I don't know the exact definitions but the projects they do aren't overnight or one-off donations, they need long term (financial) support and guidance; vaccination development takes years, vaccination programs with the intent to eradicate diseases like polio take generations - e.g. the vaccine was developed in the 50's, it took ~70 years to mostly eradicate the virus in humans (only 30 known new cases in 3 countries in 2022).
belter · 30d ago
Please...Gates has been giving interviews about giving all his money for 24 years! While every year, topping the list of the richest persons on earth.
Gates moved $50 billion into a tax-exempt entity he controls, avoided all capital gains tax, secured over $11 billion in total tax benefits, and only needs to distribute 5% of the foundation’s assets annually, all while retaining effective control and reaping massive reputational returns.
This is nothing more than tax optimization for billionaires and can guarantee you the private plane bills, security costs, hotel suites are invoiced to the foundation...
People who believe this, also believe Warren Buffet makes money by value investing and picking stocks. Warren Buffet who by the way also used the Gates foundation for tax optimization to the tune of avoiding 20 billion in capital gains tax.
If politicians wanted they could set a 95% tax on billionaires tomorrow, just like next Monday, and none of these 250 individuals would have the minor inconvenience of their lifestyle. It seems to be possible for tariffs...But those are a tax on the other 99% tax payers. It happens overnight...
Such a smart guy, but not smart enough to stay away from Epstein...
jollofricepeas · 31d ago
I’m not sure it matters.
Many will say Bill is attempting to reshape his legacy and narrative post-Epstein.
The most important thing is that money is being returned to society on an accelerated timeline.
Without this redistribution of wealth from billionaires back to especially the middle and lower classes we are headed for violent revolution on a massive scale.
Hopefully other billionaires redistribute during their lifetimes to address housing, education and health issues as well.
timewizard · 31d ago
You could eradicate a disease by killing all the hosts. I worry that the people who want to "eradicate disease" don't actually care about long term outcomes, they just want to have their likeness cast in bronze, with a nice plaque beneath it, lauding their "oversized" achievements in life.
Anyways, the type of person who can earn a lot of money in this economy, and the type of person who can best decide how to spend it altruistically, are almost certainly not the same person. The person who earned the money certainly understand this. Yet. Here we are.
blitzar · 31d ago
> The person who earned the money certainly understand this
Your cynicism is failing you.
The psycopaths that have accumilated all the money in the world are certain that they are the type of person who can best decide everything in the world on any topic, especially when it comes to people poorer than them - which is of course everyone.
srvo · 32d ago
This is the way that foundations and endowments should operate.
Too many well-intentioned organizations wind up milquetoast tax-exempt hedge funds aimed primarily at self-preservation because the received wisdom is that they should focus on building endowments and keep their withdrawal rates below 4% in order to achieve immortality.
I'm a big believer in research-driven philanthropy and mission-driven organizations. But i've seen the institutional desire for self-preservation supersede essential purposes at a few of them, with disastrous implications for their effectiveness.
The Gates foundation probably controls ~5% of the ~$2T that charitable foundations have in endowments globally. If the majority of these organizations adopted these sorts of depletion goals, their program budgets could probably more than double.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
heresie-dabord · 31d ago
> Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Ha ha, well here's mine. First, I'm way ahead of Mr Gates: I'm already worth almost nothing.
But if I had billions to give, I would be supporting Science Education, Democracy and Journalism. Scholarships for bright, motivated students.
With all due respect to Mr G, I don't believe any of his objectives is possible with stable, educated, science-orientated social progress. Humanity depends on it.
carstenhag · 31d ago
That could help in the long run, but you could also help people not die. Both are good causes and need funding
11101010001100 · 31d ago
They fund students through grants to PIs. I suspect the amount is on the order of 100M$.
fooker · 31d ago
That’s like 25 research groups for 5 years, there are about two orders of magnitude more than that.
heresie-dabord · 31d ago
* s/with/without/
opo · 31d ago
>Too many well-intentioned organizations wind up milquetoast tax-exempt hedge funds aimed primarily at self-preservation because the received wisdom is that they should focus on building endowments and keep their withdrawal rates below 4% in order to achieve immortality.
Which charities are giving away less than 4% a year? Charitable foundations in the US are required to give away at least 5% of their endowment a year:
All money spent is voting for allocation of resource. Sometimes there is too much money fighting the same goods in which case it may not be a good allocation of resources. That money can sit to become more money.
Arainach · 31d ago
At a societal level, immortal wealth is incredibly bad.
At a personal level, because wealth sitting still, having 4% pay for the overhead of maintaining the 96% and then using the pennies left doesn't accomplish much of significance.
matheusmoreira · 31d ago
Nobody allows money to sit. People deposit the money into banks. Due to fractional reserves, that's equivalent to loaning the money out so that others can efficiently allocate it instead. That's how money becomes more money.
Charities that aren't actually spending money to do good are just banks in disguise. Banks that don't pay out interest. Why would anyone donate even one cent to banks?
aDyslecticCrow · 31d ago
You can always wait another year. And then another. When is it time? 50 years? 100 years? "We will maximise good by donating it all in 1000 years" is questionably not a charity at all; it's just a massive pile of money that isn't used for anyone but paying the people sitting on it.
Even if you trick-feed donations to charity over 100 years, the sums may be insufficient to reach a usable scale.
- A big investment in research.
- A concentrated push to vaccinate against a Disease so it goes away for good.
- An infrastructure investment that lifts a community out of poverty.
These themselves produce "good over time," perhaps even faster than the money in the fund rises in value. It's a balance, but immortal trickle donations are likely quite far off to one direction of that scale.
jarbus · 32d ago
Say what you want, but I respect this a lot. Sure as hell beats giving it all to your kids.
RataNova · 32d ago
You don't have to love Gates or everything the foundation does to recognize that putting billions toward global health and poverty is way better than setting up a dynasty or letting it sit in investments
freeamz · 32d ago
Foundation is a way to set a dynasty! Just look at all the robber baron foundations out there.
RataNova · 30d ago
Some foundations have been used that way, no doubt. But I think there's a difference between setting up a tax shelter with vague goals and actively committing to spend down the entire endowment in a specific timeframe
freeamz · 29d ago
True. Actively committing to spend down the entire endowment in a specific timeframe does not mean it is not used create a dynasty.
In the 50's the Congress in US was getting suspicious about those foundations already. There were a investigation for it:
Depends on investments. Arguably tech advances are more effective for alleviating hunger than direct food donations long term.
barbazoo · 31d ago
When though? When is it enough to be used for something good?
RataNova · 30d ago
I think the ideal is a mix: fund near-term needs like healthcare and food access and invest in the systems and tools that prevent future crises
Breza · 31d ago
What companies would you invest in if you had a billion dollars and wanted to reduce global hunger?
lostmsu · 31d ago
Anything in energy production, manufacturing, or bioresearch. Probably add education in these areas as well.
blitzar · 31d ago
> letting it sit in investments
I havent looked, and frankly can't be bothered [0], but I expect that even after giving away an unfathomable amount of money, the foundation and gates are probably richer (dollar net worth) than they have ever been.
It has been sat in investments, they have been giving it away, but they can't keep up with it.
Exactly. Look at the Walton and other families hoarding wealth by abusing tax law and lobbying to make it even worse, and the armies of advisors and attorneys parasitically helping them.
Gates is thousands of times better than most. He and Melinda have done more good for the world than all but a few handfuls of individuals. I've heard estimates his original MSFT stake would be worth over a trillion dollars now.
js8 · 31d ago
Among billionaires maybe he is on the good side. But in general?
Linus Torvalds did more for the world than Bill Gates, IMHO. And he didn't need to set up a system that first appropriates money in order to "be generous" later.
stewx · 31d ago
What diseases has Torvalds eradicated?
pclmulqdq · 31d ago
What diseases has Gates eradicated? Polio has been surging back and nOPV (which Gates stands to generate a lot of personal wealth from, by the way) has been a bit of a bust. Measles is going strong, too, and Malaria seems to have been a bit of a token effort for Gates.
nearbuy · 31d ago
Polio type 2 and 3 were eradicated and overall we went from 400k cases of paralytic polio per year down to less than 1% of that.
pclmulqdq · 31d ago
You may want to check your numbers because polio type 2 and type 3 are both still around (in fact, cVDPV type 2 is very, very common). The GPEI website has the recent numbers, updated weekly (although with ~3 month lag).
400k to 4k is not 400k to 0. Eradication means 0. People don't get smallpox vaccines today because we hit 0. American children get ~4 doses of IPV still, despite what you are claiming as "eradication."
motoxpro · 31d ago
Reduced the number of cases by 99%*
That's amazing and I am very happy I live in a world where someone helped that many people, regardless of who you compare their accomplishments to.
pclmulqdq · 31d ago
Attributing that whole reduction to Gates alone is a ridiculous thing to do. He didn't even fund most of the project and the only thing he really brings to the table is money. This has been a multinational effort with literally millions of people for 3 decades. Gates mostly wrested control from them in the last decade.
If he manages to bring the project over the finish line, I will celebrate his achievement. At this point, signs point to failure of the GPEI being a near certainty. Unfortunately, we'll be back to 400k in about 10-15 years if we give up at this point.
nearbuy · 30d ago
You're conflating cVDPV with WPV. Despite both having a "type 2", they are not the same virus.
Calling a few hundred reported cases a year globally "very, very common" is... a stretch. You have better odds of getting struck by lightning.
pclmulqdq · 29d ago
I am not conflating cVDPV with WPV. The parent comment claimed type 2 and type 3 polio were gone, which is not true. WPV 3 and WPV 2 are gone, but type 2 and type 3 polio are both still around. If you get polio today (unlikely but possible), there's a pretty good chance it's cVDPV 2.
nearbuy · 29d ago
So you you're saying you knew the two types of polio were eradicated but inexplicably assumed the parent comment must have meant the vaccine-derived poliovirus was eradicated. Or you think these are the same virus because you saw "type 2" in the names of both.
pclmulqdq · 29d ago
I don't think these are the same thing. But when someone says that polio type 2 has been eradicated, that means the entire family of WPV, cVDPV, and VAPP. Not just WPV.
For all intents and purposes, yes, cVDPV is the same thing as WPV. There have actually been instances where cVDPVs have evolved into things that look quite a bit like WPV. Declaring victory over "type 2/3" because WPV is gone is meaningless when lots of people still get cVDPV and have exactly the same symptoms.
herewulf · 31d ago
SCO UNIX.
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danvoell · 32d ago
And/or when you die. We need more people trying to make the world better while they are here instead of treating the finish line like the, well, finish line.
ivape · 31d ago
I mean, the lifestyle of rich babies doesn't even require that much money. He can easily provide them the money to travel to a random city and buy a luxury condo and set up a food-truck business. A couple of million is enough to one day decide to pack it up and buy a farm.
oulipo · 32d ago
Sure, but only capitalism concentrates so much wealth in such few hands
An alternative would be that company like Microsoft couldn't gain so much wealth, simply because their revenue would be capped / taxed high enough that the extra money they make goes back directly to people and governments
In this case, *everyone* gets to vote and choose for what philanthropies the amount gets used, rather than having just "one guy" deciding for himself how to spend all this money, which is prone to errors
celeritascelery · 32d ago
The government spends about 10x the amount of money on foreign aid than the gates foundations entire budget ever year. Not to mention the hundreds billions spent on domestic aid every year. So your dream is already a reality.
wing-_-nuts · 32d ago
His foundation really does seem to do a good job with 'effective altruism'. There's a reason they're marked as secondary beneficiaries on all my accounts.
Also, as a recommendation, you guys should look into whether your employer matches charitable donations to 501Cs in any amount. I find giving a solid chunk of my discretionary budget to charity every year lends a sense of purpose to a job that wouldn't otherwise have much (at least, in the sense of helping others).
I enjoy being a dev, and I've given serious thought to simply continuing working once I reach my FIRE number and donating half of what I earn to charity. I think most charities would have more use for my money than my time, given my disability
zozbot234 · 32d ago
> There's a reason they're marked as secondary beneficiaries on all my accounts.
Strictly speaking, the foundation discourages individuals from donating directly to them, mostly because the tax treatment of giving that way isn't necessarily favorable. They've set up Gates Philanthropy Partners as a 501(c)(3) charity which is aligned to the same philanthropic goals.
(Of course there's also many other worthwhile players in the broader EA space.)
nostromo · 31d ago
I worked there and would encourage you not to do that.
It'd be smarter to see who they are giving money to (which is all public) and give directly to those orgs. The Gates foundation itself spends a lot of money on consultants, "government engagement" (aka lobbying by another name), and fancy dinners.
That's fine or maybe even noble for a family foundation, but it's probably not something individuals would want to fund.
frereubu · 31d ago
Anecdata, but the brother of a friend was working on malaria in a SE Asian country and the Gates Foundation got interested in what they were doing, and wanted to find out more about it before possibly funding some of their work. They flew the entire team to the US, put them up in expensive hotels for a few days and flew them all back. They calculated that the cost of that was three times their annual budget. It would have made more sense to me to either (a) fly someone from the Gates Foundation to the country so they could see things first hand or (b) conduct the investigation / interviews via the internet. Given that the Foundation's people weren't in-country anyway, (b) seems like the best option all round given the environmental costs of flying.
michaelt · 31d ago
> They flew the entire team to the US, put them up in expensive hotels for a few days and flew them all back. They calculated that the cost of that was three times their annual budget.
Are you sure about that?
Let's say every employee gets a $1000 round trip flight, plus $2000 for 4 nights in a decent hotel, a total of $3000 per head. Are you telling me that employee is paid $1000 a year or less?
frereubu · 31d ago
The way they talked about it, the total per head was north of $5k, and they lived in an incredibly poor / cheap country. I wasn't fact-checking their figures, but they weren't the kind of person to exaggerate for effect.
qingcharles · 31d ago
Lobbying is ugly, but essential in the system we live in. You have to be pragmatic about it :(
delusional · 31d ago
That depends on what you are lobbying for. I don't think we have to treat all lobbying the same.
qingcharles · 31d ago
The problem is the good guys have to spend donations on lobbying because otherwise the legislators are only hearing from the bad guys. This is a story as old as time I think.
Breza · 31d ago
The 1st Amendment says it's a fundamental right
Blankono · 31d ago
So you appreachiate that the Bill Gates Foundation takes the time and energy / Resources to figure out whom to give money for the best impact, but you don't suggest others to give an organization, which actually takes the time and effort to figoure out how to spend money properly?
I find this dishonest.
And i find your point regarding 'fancy dinners' weird. You do know why they might spend money on this right? For doing lobbying which leads to real impact. Your 'fancy dinner' might be the difference between a political decision in favour for the right thing vs. some other company lobbying for the opposition.
reaperducer · 31d ago
Exactly. He doesn't need 20 years. That's just him trying to draw attention to himself.
If he was really serious about giving away his money, he could write a single check to the Red Cross || Doctors Without Borders || insert charity here and in five minutes be done with it.
The world doesn't need more vanity charities. It needs its existing charities to be better funded.
jncfhnb · 31d ago
The Red Cross is not equipped to make effective use of all that money at once
PaulRobinson · 31d ago
Says who? They can (ethically) invest it and fund programs off a 5%-8% or better return. They can find new things to do. They can donate some of it into health research that is currently under-funded.
JumpCrisscross · 31d ago
> They can (ethically) invest it and fund programs off a 5%-8% or better return
They can also lose or squander it. One of the Gates Foundation’s value adds is monitoring.
2muchcoffeeman · 31d ago
And with such a sum of money they would surely have to hire staff to work all that out. Can thy do that?
I’ve tried volunteering at certain orgs before, I filled out forms and literally they rejected me because they had no more staff to organise and oversee more volunteers.
If your solution is just invest it, well, the Gates Foundation may as well hang on to it (you think you can do better job than Buffet?) and setup a system to dole it out.
If the org has to find new uses for it, surely the Gates Foundation is in a better position to get that done?
jncfhnb · 31d ago
These are things that the Gates Foundation does currently and the Red Cross does not (at the scale of the Gates Foundation).
kurthr · 31d ago
[flagged]
Blankono · 31d ago
I don't think you understand really how thngs work if you believe, giving something like the Red Cross Billions would just work.
Just googling it delivers enough critisism on worst level than you think Bill Gates Foundation is: "misusing funds, poor logistical planning, inadequate responses to specific crises, and even allegations of fraud and theft. "
Impact matters. Impact doesn't mean to just give money to some organization. Bill Gates actually played a significant role in Ebola vacination. Why? Because he/his team revisted why just giving out vacines was not enough.
Impact means helping as efficient as possible with the money.
And btw. a lot of other charities of this style (especially christians ones we all know) have also borderline ways of missusing believers to do their work. My aunt worked for nuns and got paid shit. This is now a problem for her retirment. Guess who pays that? Yeah the state...
SteveNuts · 31d ago
That much wealth could probably fund every food bank in the country indefinitely, even at extremely conservative returns.
JumpCrisscross · 31d ago
> That much wealth could probably fund every food bank in the country indefinitely
That seems like an incredibly stupid way to spend money that has been eradicating diseases and saving lives in countries where food insecurity isn’t a choice.
> Food insecurity is a choice in the US? I suppose yes, if you mean it's the government's choice
That’s what I mean. Like the housing shortage, food insecurity is trivially solved if voters cared about it. We don’t at almost every political level.
therealdrag0 · 31d ago
Do food banks lack funding? In my region they often struggle to give away food before throwing it out. Even the poor in America don’t starve.
Ozzie_osman · 32d ago
For you (or other folks) working in tech and giving to charity, apart from corporate match, another couple pieces of advice are to consider a Donor Advised Fund. They are really easy to set up, and then you get some benefits, like the ability to "bunch" your donations (can help with tax deductions) or donate appreciated investments (like RSUs) without paying capital gains tax.
Zaheer · 32d ago
https://charityvest.org/ is a great modern DAF tool. I use it to get 1 single charity receipt at the end of the year and track my giving.
newfocogi · 32d ago
Another happy CharityVest user here. I recommend it to everyone I talk to when DAFs are remotely relevant to the conversation.
MattSayar · 32d ago
Money managing tools like Betterment also have native UI features to donate investments to charities as well
nonce42 · 31d ago
Agree on the Donor Advised Fund (I use Fidelity). If you have highly-appreciated stock, you definitely should look into a DAF. Another benefit is that it is extremely easy to donate to a charity; click and submit and you don't have to worry about paperwork and putting each donation down on your taxes.
wing-_-nuts · 32d ago
Yep, I've considered a DAF and donating stock, but it wouldn't be eligible for my employer match.
dmoy · 32d ago
Depends on the employer I guess. Some companies will do match even for DAF distributions (not the initial transfer obviously)
9rx · 32d ago
> without paying capital gains tax.
It's a funny day when you're feeling charitable, but go out of your way to avoid helping the entity that should be the ideal charitable recipient.
toast0 · 32d ago
The state goes out of their way to encourage it.
Let's say you just won the startup lottery and you've got a significant amount of now tradable stock. Some of which was early exercised and the cost basis is effectively zero. Some of which was RSUs or non-qualified options and you owe ordinary income. And that you're way over into the top tax brackets.
If your zero cost basis stock is Qualified Small Business Stock (QSBS), there's a very nice discount on federal capital gains, so you might not need to do the rest of the stuff.
Otherwise, if you donate your apprechiated zero basis stock, you get to save federal capital gains of 20% + 3.8% net investment income. Plus it offsets against your ordinary income that's 37%. So that's a 60.8% discount on being charitable for the feds. If you live in California, capital gains are regular income, so you're saving 13.3% because the capital gains go away and offsetting 13.3% on your ordinary income, so your total discount is 87.4%. In other words, your difference in cash after taxes for selling $1M of zero basis stock or donating $1M of zero basis stock is $126k.
When the government is telling you it only costs $126k to give a charity $1M, it's pretty compelling. The math used to be different, when you'd get credit for state taxes on the federal return, but that was many years ago now.
mmooss · 32d ago
> The state goes out of their way to encourage it.
People with lots of money and power get their representatives to pass laws that reduce their taxes.
njdas · 31d ago
Yet people still advocate for giving these reps endless increases in taxation.
jorvi · 32d ago
That is not their argument.
You lowering your tax rate and giving that money to charity isn't magicking more money into the world, it is just a different allocation.
The government's tax income is allocated by the masses (in theory anyway). It is fair and dispassionate.
Philanthropy / charity is picking winners and losers based on your personal whims, and for many it is about gaining social capital.
jonas21 · 31d ago
Even under ideal circumstances, the priority of a government is to serve the needs of its citizens. Sometimes, these happen to align with global needs, and sometimes not.
In order to improve global health or address other issues that impact countries beyond where you live, the government (even an idealized version without waste, corruption, or political games) might not be the most effective way to accomplish this.
jorvi · 31d ago
Right. But taking the combined $140 billion net worth of Bill and Melinda, about 30% (or whatever 'fair' rate you want to assume) shouldn't have been theirs to give away. Let them spend the other part however they want.
What I find kind of interesting is that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet argue that they should be taxed more, but they don't do anything to further that goal aside from media soundbites and headlines. They could fund an incredible war chest for a lobbying apparatus who's sole purpose would be to create a more fair tax system. But no such thing happens.
skybrian · 31d ago
Some government programs are good, but if it went to the US government then Trump could cancel them. (Unless the courts stop it.)
It seems fortunate that some charitable funds aren't subject to that risk. They have other risks, but they seem lower.
In an imperfect world, government funding alone seems insufficiency diversified. That's too much power in one place.
threetonesun · 31d ago
Charitable funds fall victim to the same fundamental issue, leadership is more interested in benefiting themselves than putting the money towards the aims of the charity.
In general I donate to places local to me. I'd much rather see a bench at a local park than hold on to some hope that my money does something meaningful to a large international charity organization.
skybrian · 31d ago
I think what it comes down to is that there's no general rule. There are a lot of organizations you could give money to and it all depends on what it is.
zozbot234 · 32d ago
> You lowering your tax rate and giving that money to charity isn't magicking more money into the world, it is just a different allocation.
This is only ever true if you assume that government tax spending is 100% efficient, with nary a fraction of a cent being wasted. I don't think that's a safe assumption.
intrepidhero · 32d ago
No. The assumption is that charity and government have roughly equivalent efficiency. Both government and charities have (wildly varying) overhead and government agencies may enjoy economies of scale that charities do not. Yet another area of the world that contains a surprising amount of detail.
waynesonfire · 32d ago
Explains why there is a non-profit writing sudo in Rust recently featured on HN.
wing-_-nuts · 32d ago
If that entity used my tax dollars wisely (looking at nordic countries), yes I agree paying taxes is superior. I have no interest in contributing more towards our 1T/yr defense budget or subsidizing oil and gas.
vinceguidry · 32d ago
The sovereign wealth funds of the Nordic countries weren't built with tax dollars, but rather with oil revenue. We could do the same thing here if there were political appetite for holding energy companies responsible and the wealth they produce as belonging to the people living on the land the resources are coming out of.
We're doing better now than we were 50 years ago, but the Nords are light years ahead.
Nullabillity · 32d ago
The oil fund isn't a Nordic Thing™, it's norwegian. We in the rest of the nordics don't even have (significant amounts of) oil.
pnw · 31d ago
Yes, Denmark, Sweden and Finland combined don't even have 20% of the Norwegian fund. Norway is basically the Saudi Arabia of Europe.
carlhjerpe · 31d ago
Norway is basically anything but the Saudi Arabia of Europe. The ONLY thing that is similar is that they both have oil and natural gas in their territory.
It's a gross comparison.
throwawaymaths · 31d ago
Well they do both have monarchs! Though the royal palace in Oslo is a public park. As I was strolling the park, to my surprise I attended a quick fanfare as the king left his palace and his driver (I presume) almost ran over a dumb kid that darted in front of the royal sedan. then at the end of the royal avenue, at the foot of the most glorious mathematician sculpture, the royal sedan turned a corner directly into rush hour traffic, which his highness had to endure just like the rest of us commoners.
s1mplicissimus · 31d ago
What a lovely anecdote, I've been to the royal park in Oslo once and it's gorgeous!
As an Austrian, I personally prefer to look at my royals in the catacombs of St. Stephens Cathedral though ;)
quesera · 31d ago
I was 100% of the impression that GP was comparing petroleum resources, and explicitly not climate, traditional dress, or human rights.
carlhjerpe · 31d ago
Flew straight past me somehow, that's on me!
How they spend their oil resources is also quite different. :)
victorbjorklund · 31d ago
Grass is always greener on the other side. Trust me there is plenty of waste of tax money in the nordics too. Recent example. Every month the govt pays 4 million dollars for a healthcare journaling system that is not used (because it does not work). And that is just the on going cost (even more was spent building it).
Or a school admin system built for 100 million dollars and crap. They even spent a lot of money trying to prevent a open source client that solved a lot of the issues they had.
Maybe in absolute money it is less than the US. But remember US also have a lot more people.
didgetmaster · 32d ago
Perhaps the government 'should' be the ideal charitable entity; but it most definitely is not.
The waste, fraud, and abuse that runs rampant throughout the government tells us that the powerful often use taxpayer dollars as their own slush fund.
Sure the government does much to relieve the suffering of people around the globe; but it could do far more with substantially less.
mmooss · 32d ago
> The waste, fraud, and abuse that runs rampant throughout the government tells us that the powerful often use taxpayer dollars as their own slush fund.
I don't know that it's worse than any other institution? At least voters can remove the corrupt, and they are prosecuted. Are you saying these uber-wealthy and CEOs aren't just as corrupt or worse?
didgetmaster · 31d ago
What I am saying is that I have a choice whether my money goes to a corporation or to a charity. I don't get to choose whether I pay taxes or not.
More often than not, corruption in government does not result in the perpetrator being prosecuted or even removed from office.
I am amazed at all the people who are so sure that corporations and/or wealthy investors are corrupt, but give big government a pass. As if the same types of people don't run both.
9rx · 31d ago
> but give big government a pass.
Its probably not so much that government gets a pass as much as government is the organization that, by virtue of being a citizen, they own and control, so when things go wrong it is their own fault, and they really don't want to accept blame for their own faults. They would have to ask "How did I manage to fuck this up?", which is a hard question for most people to ask themselves.
When it is distinctly someone else's organization it's much easier to throw pointless shade to make one feel better about their own failings.
mmooss · 31d ago
> I am amazed at all the people who are so sure that corporations and/or wealthy investors are corrupt, but give big government a pass.
Where do you find these people? I've never met them. It seems like everyone complains about government waste and corruption - even when it's not happening!
pcthrowaway · 31d ago
> Sure the government does much to relieve the suffering of people around the globe;
If we're talking specifically about the U.S. government, I suspect its decisions cause more suffering globally than they alleviate, though of course there are open philosophical questions inherent in any attempt to quantify suffering.
Ozzie_osman · 31d ago
So, there is a limit to these deductions, meaning, the government is still usually getting the lion's share of most people's taxes (and, generally, I think 50% of your income is the max you can deduct).
I think there is value to letting people allocate some percentage of their income directly to causes they are passionate about. Even if you assume the government is efficient and not bloated, and benevolent, this lets people contribute to causes without waiting for political consensus, or to smaller causes that would not be on the government's radar (yet) or ever. It's more pluralistic. It lets smaller causes bloom. It keeps me civically engaged.
On a personal note, I do take issue with the amounts spent on "defense" (which is often bombing people or threatening to directly or indirectly), and would rather help folks than bomb other folks.
knowitnone · 32d ago
It's OK to do both and who is this ideal charitable recipient you are talking about? You mean the one that takes your money and does whatever it wants with it?
No comments yet
monooso · 32d ago
That assumes a lot about the current administration.
ToValueFunfetti · 32d ago
Assumes a lot about every administration. I don't see how anyone can look at what the US Government has done and failed to do over the last decades and call it the ideal charitable recipient. Even when it's doing the right things, it wastes enormous amounts of money to do so and the primary beneficiary is one of the wealthiest populations in the world.
Of course, you wouldn't expect them to be the ideal charity; they are explicitly not a charity. Anyone who is actually trying to be a charity should have little trouble using funds more charitably than any government in the world.
gambiting · 32d ago
It might be surprising, but there are charitable people outside of USA too. I do consider paying taxes the best way to help those in need, but I don't live in the US personally.
9rx · 32d ago
Presumably the current administration is what has made the day funny (in a sad way).
dingnuts · 32d ago
It assumes a lot about future administrations too. When Obama was in office I complained a lot about the Executive branch consolidating power and using executive orders, and the Democrats were fine with it because he was a "good" administration.
But guess what? If you give too much power to a position, people who want to abuse the power will try to get themselves there.
I wasn't upset that Obama was consolidating power because I thought Obama would abuse it. I'm upset that he consolidated power and then left it to whoever would come next, and then has the gall to be surprised that consolidating power under the Executive would undermine the power of the Legislature the moment a President who was willing to abuse said power was sworn in.
We're cooked because of the fucking team sports. Both parties have had the chance to reign in the Executive and neither has the balls to use it against their own guy
cyberax · 31d ago
Obama didn't "consolidate power", he issued fewer EO than Bush (276 vs. 291). Trump has issued 142 just within these 100 days.
fallingknife · 31d ago
Number of EOs issued is a poor measure of centralization of power. Most exercise of executive power these days don't even require an EO, just a decree from one of the executive agencies. And looking at Trump vs Obama is myopic. This process has been going on continuously since at least the FDR admin.
Even in qualitative terms, the "consolidation" was incorrect. Congress abdicated its responsibilities, and the Federal agencies picked up the slack. They're not controlled _centrally_, it's not like Obama was ordering agencies to write particular rules.
We now see what the central consolidated control actually looks like.
vasco · 32d ago
The state is never going to be as agile as private people engaging on topics they are passionate about on their private time.
ryandrake · 32d ago
When it comes to funding various "public good" efforts, we don't need agility. We need fairness and at least some kind of public influence over what gets funded.
The problem with leaving everything to private charity is that only the wealthy people and churches doing the donating dictate what counts as "public good" without you and I having any say over it. We luck out when the donor has good intentions and chooses to donate to an organization doing good, and we have no say when the donor has evil intentions and chooses to donate elsewhere. Allowing a small handful of rich donors to decide what counts as a good cause is not ideal.
mmooss · 32d ago
> The problem with leaving everything to private charity is that only the wealthy people and churches doing the donating dictate what counts as "public good" without you and I having any say over it. We luck out when the donor has good intentions ...
It is problematic even with good intentions.
People don't have time, expertise or usually even the motive to systematically examine ROI. They or someone they know has a 'good cause' and they support it. For example, endowments at their alma mater - likely a school for wealthy kids, new buildings for the hospital (that serves wealthy people), new research in diseases that are problems for the wealthy, etc.
They can't know without talking to people who have experience with poverty, for example, and those aren't the people coming to dinner tonight.
zozbot234 · 32d ago
> The problem with leaving everything to private charity is that the wealthy people doing the donating dictate what counts as "public good" without you and I having any say over it.
The thing about public goods is that people tend to agree pretty closely about what they are. The wealthiest person in the world benefits from, e.g. clean air just as much as you do. You should be a lot more worried about wealthy folks who don't donate to charity and just spend the money on big luxury yachts and the like, because these folks are essentially free-riding on everyone else.
mmooss · 32d ago
> The thing about public goods is that people tend to agree pretty closely about what they are.
Is there some data that shows that?
> The wealthiest person in the world benefits from, e.g. clean air just as much as you do.
We can find public goods in common for many groups, but that's actually a bad example. Wealthy people care about clean air in their neighborhood; pollution is therefore concentrated in poor areas. They don't site the new incerator (or drug treatment facility) on the Upper East Side of Manhatten.
Many needs are specific to poverty. For example, wealthy people are not subject to malaria; they are no illiterate; they don't need toilets or labor rights; they can afford college for their kids regardless of tuition; they have unlimited access to safe, fresh, healthy food. They don't need more available and less expensive health care, so they donate to cancer research and high-tech therapy and not to the medical clinic in the poor neighborhood.
ryandrake · 32d ago
Given (at least the USA's) increasingly polarized population, I don't think it's at all true that people agree closely about what should be funded, and I'll admit that fact makes my argument weaker: The danger of a particular wealthy person "donating to evil" is similar to the danger that the majority of the country votes to "fund evil."
I also agree that wealthy folks spending their wealth on luxury yachts while the public suffers is also something to worry about. Who knew? Gargantuan wealth inequalities are mostly downside for everyone but the wealthy!
zozbot234 · 32d ago
Shouldn't we be a lot more worried about how political polarization might impact government choices, compared to private sector ones? Private actors who spend their own money have to pay for their own choices and are accountable to themselves in a way that political operatives fundamentally don't. I see a lot more potential for 'evil' on the political/state actor side.
vasco · 32d ago
Yeah but it's not either or. And people are always want to contribute to their pet causes. Go tell someone who's sibling died of cancer or whatever that they shouldn't donate to cancer research because the state should do it. Like yes it should but however much they do you may have personal reasons to want to do more. So private charity is always going to be a thing in parallel to public works.
9rx · 32d ago
A group of people engaging in topics they are passionate about in their private time is what a state is. Perhaps what you are trying to say is that you only want to help out your friends?
njdas · 32d ago
I'm trying to reconcile how https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM is 'helping out your friends.' See, we can all create straw-men. It's not very useful for discourse. The vast majority of us want what is best for humanity, but we have different views on how to deliver it.
9rx · 31d ago
You can fund the people (government) or you can fund specific people whim whom you have an intimate trust (friends). The only other choices are to fund yourself or nobody, neither of which are applicable here. Not sure why that is so hard to reconcile.
njdas · 31d ago
You are framing it as a binary "you either fund the government or only your friends." You really believe there is no in between? You are framing this as if you're on some high ground and we either have to agree with your opinion or we are selfish. There are other ways to advance humanity than your opinions. Government is not some benevolent entity. The supposition that it is has no basis in data from present reality or history. As one example, see marxist/communist governments killing their own people as the leading cause of death in the 20th century.
9rx · 31d ago
> Government is not some benevolent entity.
Of course not. It's quite literally just the people. If you cannot trust the people with your charitable donations, but still wish to donate to a person, then you're going to have to narrow that down to the specific person you can trust (i.e. your friends). There is no in-between.
njdas · 31d ago
There is a major important nuance. It is just some people, who happen to control the government (ie: use of force) to achieve their ends. "The people" are diverse and have different opinions, and the "government" represents a small portion of them. I've certainly donated to charitable organizations that are not my friends, but have a proven track record of effectively using money for specific goals. The government rarely meets this criteria.
psunavy03 · 32d ago
Yeah, no. A government is not "a group of people engaging in topics they are passionate about." A government is an entity with authority to tell you what you have to do, and if you don't do it, eventually people with guns will show up at your door and take you to jail.
mmooss · 32d ago
That's a very narrow aspect of government, and one that I have hardly ever encountered. Law-abiding people don't do it because of government coercion but because they believe in being cooperative members of their community and don't want to hurt others.
Another, much larger aspect of government, especially democratic, is people getting together and doing things as a community that can't be done individually.
psunavy03 · 31d ago
"I have not encountered something" != "it does not exist." The logical conclusion to defying a government is people with guns showing up to put you in cuffs and take you to jail. Even over something as piddling as a littering fine or parking ticket . . . watch what eventually happens if you refuse to pay it.
People getting together and doing things as a community does not require a government. We can and should do that of our own free will. That's not to say governments aren't needed. But labeling them as "people getting together and doing things as a community" ignores their ability to enforce their laws, including the sanctioned use of violence or the threat of violence to coerce people into obeying or to punish them.
9rx · 31d ago
> People getting together and doing things as a community does not require a government.
That may be true, but government (at least a democratic one) is just people getting together and doing things, so if you already have one you can save the effort of the community trying to organize a second community on top of the community they already have for no good reason.
> But labeling them as "people getting together and doing things as a community" ignores their ability to enforce their laws, including the sanctioned use of violence or the threat of violence to coerce people into obeying or to punish them.
That literally tells of people getting together and doing things. These are not magical powers. They are simply community action. I suppose it highlights that people getting together and doing things isn't all sunshine and rainbows, despite your apparent dream for a world where there is only happiness, but such is reality.
I expect the aversion is that those who wish to donate to charity only want their friends, not entire communities, to benefit. The "trouble" with a community at large is that everyone is able to participate, whether you like them or not. That's not to say that a community cannot see a charitable benefit indirectly, but the key point is that they want to keep the primary benefit away from strangers.
jokethrowaway · 31d ago
There are plenty of such organisations. Some are legal, some are not.
The government is the only one with a legal monopoly on violence; it redistributes resources in the society and it's not run by incorruptible angels but by fallible human beings - human beings who were put there thanks to investments of millions of dollars.
It's a recipe for disaster.
mmooss · 31d ago
> It's a recipe for disaster.
Government is a recipe for disaster? Democratic government has worked for centuries without disaster.
> it's not run by incorruptible angels but by fallible human beings - human beings who were put there thanks to investments of millions of dollars.
Yes, that is the trick of every human endeavor, the great ones and the failures. It depends on you and me - let's make it happen.
mmooss · 31d ago
> The logical conclusion to defying a government is people with guns showing up to put you in cuffs and take you to jail. Even over something as piddling as a littering fine or parking ticket . . . watch what eventually happens if you refuse to pay it.
That may be logical, but it doesn't happen. I've had unpaid parking tickets for long periods and nobody showed up at all, much less with guns. Where do you live that they jail you for it, much less go out and find you? Your local government must be very well-funded to have resources for that, not to mention having a fascist attitude - how popular is that with constituents?
> People getting together and doing things as a community does not require a government.
It depends - many times it is the most or only effective way. It has decision-making mechanisms - including elected representatives, hearings, experts - and executive mechanisms including employees, equipment, contract managers, processes, institutional information such as maps of infrastructure, and loads of experience. Imagine some neighbors in NYC trying to put in just a new streetlight.
> But labeling them as "people getting together and doing things as a community" ignores their ability to enforce their laws, including the sanctioned use of violence or the threat of violence to coerce people into obeying or to punish them.
It doesn't ignore it, but your prior comment repeats the Internet trope that that's what goverment is - a coercive mechanism with guns. That's only one narrow aspect - the great majority of what government does, and how society works, has nothing to do with that. It's for the outlaws, not for the great majority.
9rx · 32d ago
> A government is an entity with authority to tell you what you have to do
If it is authoritarian, perhaps, but even that is still a matter of a group of people. Most seem to believe that government should be democratic. You may not find yourself in a democratic state, but that would only continue to contribute to what makes the day funny. Perhaps you didn't read the entire thread and are posting this without understanding the full context under which it is taking place?
sswatson · 31d ago
No, all governments have the authority to tell people what to do. Some governments operate within a legal framework that limits that authority in many ways, but if an organization has no authority over the people who live in a given area then it isn't a government.
9rx · 31d ago
> all governments have the authority to tell people what to do.
But, again, that government is the very people we're talking about, at least as far as a democracy goes. Although even in the case of an authoritarian government, the individual authority is only as strong as the people are willing to go along with recognizing it, so it is not really that much different. No magic here, just people.
jokethrowaway · 31d ago
Democracy is the dictatorship of the majority on the minority.
It's nothing to be proud of.
What you can be proud of is in REDUCING dictatorship, by removing power in centralised entities and giving it back to the individuals.
mmooss · 31d ago
> Democracy is the dictatorship of the majority on the minority.
It is not - that would be some theoretical pure democracy, also called 'mob rule'. Democracy, as the word is actually used, requires universal human rights which protect the minority. For example, freedom of speech means the majority can't control the minority's speech, whether they like it or not.
Democracy also includes separation of powers, usually between legislature, executive, and judicial, which prevents the concentration of power.
> It's nothing to be proud of.
It's only something to be proud of if we make it that way.
Supporting government programs at the same time as you insist money could be better used elsewhere (at charities) is somewhat amusing.
hermitcrab · 31d ago
>I enjoy being a dev ... I think most charities would have more use for my money than my time, given my disability
You could be massively wrong about that. Many charities are desparate for IT help. I am a developer and volunteer at a charity. I have done some IT stuff for them (mostly setting up some Airtable databases) and it has been (modesty aside) transformative for them.
giantg2 · 32d ago
It seems his foundation already has significant funding. I would give to other charities, focusing on high impact work in specific regions or domains that knight not be as popular.
lvass · 31d ago
>His foundation really does seem to do a good job with 'effective altruism'
Can you provide some sources for this? I'm by no means an expert in this area, but my city happened to receive some of his modified A. Aegypti since 2017 and it didn't make the people here happy, at all. Though I don't even think there's a comprehensive study on how much good or harm came from it.
therein · 31d ago
> There's a reason they're marked as secondary beneficiaries on all my accounts.
That's just insane. Bill Gates is absolutely not a good guy but you cannot be convinced to that given how much you idealize him. Have children. I would have replied to the sibling comment saying the same but comments become unreplyable once they get enough downvotes.
yodsanklai · 31d ago
My issue with Gates is that he wants to fight climate change, yet he's personally an environmental disaster with his yachts and jets. I'm not saying he has to live like a monk to be credible, and maybe his foundation is doing a good job (never looked into it), but either he's an hypocrite, or I disagree with him on how to fight climate change.
abound · 31d ago
I think it's pretty clearly hypocritical, but also if his actions are (far) more than offsetting his own emissions and impact, it's still a net positive.
Of course, he could choose to not live a super-high consumption lifestyle in addition to his climate philanthopy, but if I had to take one or the other, I'd rather him continue throwing money at climate work than take fewer private jet rides.
xienze · 31d ago
But... he could easily do both. This is why I have such a hard time taking anything said about climate change seriously from the likes of Gore, Gates, and celebrities. They don’t practice what they preach.
And it’s not like we’re talking about some huge sacrifices here. Go from a 50K sqft house to a “modest” 10k sqft one. Don’t sail around on personal yachts. Fly commercial. Use Zoom. Simple stuff that would give them a lot more credibility. As it is, it’s a whole lot of “do as I say, not as I do.”
im3w1l · 31d ago
I think it matters how it's done. If someone has super high consumption but also invests in clean energy to save the climate that's cool by be. If someone has super high consumption but also invests money into lobbying to deny the lower classes access to consumption as a means of saving the climate I would resent that person.
yupitsme123 · 31d ago
How do we measure if something is a net positive or negative when we're talking about global-level decisions?
This has always been the sticking point for me when it comes to supporting large charities.
eastbound · 31d ago
My issue is, he wants to fight climate change… then tries to spend $200bn in less than 20 years. This afflux of money creates a spike of consumerism, then a sudden dip after that. Consultants in foundations will scramble to spend that money for sure, and they themselves will buy private jets for that.
The way to fight climate change is to keep people at a low level of consumption, and spend his own money very slowly, very scarcely. And keep people with small cars, no Cadillac for any consultant.
carlhjerpe · 31d ago
While it might be hypocritical it doesn't matter whatsoever what he does with his personal life if his foundation is pouring billions into making the world a better place.
Helping people out of poverty is really bad for the environment too but I don't think we should be complaining when someone does that.
On a global scale his yacht(s?) and private jets are nothing, and if it helps him do good by establishing/maintaining relationships with the right people they're an "investment" into a stopping climate change.
A bit of a naive take as opposed to yours.
yupitsme123 · 31d ago
I'll ask the same question I've asked elsewhere because "I want to believe:" How do you measure how much someone has made the world a better place? Especially when so much of their actions, their consequences, and their second and third order effects are either unknowable or papered over by PR campaigns.
carlhjerpe · 31d ago
You can't really measure how much good someone has done, but their foundation has been going for 25 years and as mentioned in the article they've donated 100billion dollars to something already.
If anyone deserves a bit of good faith it'd be the Gates family, it's probably not all pretty and perfect but I am convinced they're doing a lot of good.
You'll have to ask someone else about proof, but I imagine someone would've leaked something within these 25 years if they were running a tax evasion scheme or something else fishy.
So without hard proof I repeat: Let Bill have his toys, it's a piss in the bucket on a global scale and the donated 100 billion dollars will have offset that in some way or another many times over.
Let's just say my "sniff test" says good, and while not always right I think I am here and that's good enough for me.
calepayson · 31d ago
I don't think you can. I think the best we have is intention and Gates seems to have good intentions to me.
comboy · 31d ago
If his net effect on the climate is positive then you are only arguing that he could be even more efficient at it - but you are not in position to do that without knowing all his personal context. Outside you can only judge the net result - which is not a bad one.
BeetleB · 31d ago
Being a hypocrite is a fairly minor sin, and doesn't take away from the good he does. I could make a long list of worse qualities Bill Gates possesses, but I'll still acknowledge the good.
PoignardAzur · 31d ago
Serious question: how bad is the footprint of Gate's yachts and jets and similar luxury stuff? I genuinely have no idea.
I mean, having more than one of either already seems ridiculously wasteful to me, and I don't care if that's standard billionaire lifestyle.
faku812 · 31d ago
It's all about virtue signaling. All he cares about is if people someday decide to "eat the rich" he won't be the first one on the menu.
calepayson · 31d ago
This is a silly way to interpret someone donating over $100B to charity.
yupitsme123 · 31d ago
The thing that's always made me skeptical of Gates and any other enormous foundations is that they operate at such a high level and with such enormous budgets that they basically exist in the same "amoral" world of nation states and corporations, but yet they face none of the scrutiny or criticism that those entities face.
How do you judge the actions of someone when those actions are powerful enough to move markets, take down regimes, and change people's lives for generations?
We take them at their word and assume that everything they do is well-intentioned and good and has zero negative impact or secondary effects, but is that really the case?
To me it seems like the only charity that can be trusted is a small-scale one that acts locally and with lots of transparency.
david-gpu · 31d ago
Why would they have to be perfect to deserve donations? A "small-scale charity that acts locally with lots of transparency" may be great, or it may be terribly inefficient in their real-world ability to improve the well-being of the people they are supposed to benefit. And either choice would be better than not donating anything to anybody.
yupitsme123 · 31d ago
May be great or may be terrible applies to both the small and the the nation-state sized charity right?
Maybe my judgement or efficiency is bad when I try to help my neighbor. Okay, whoopsie. Now apply that margin of error to a foundation whose decisions impact millions of people and possibly entire societies, possibly for generations. The unintended or possibly negative effects can be enormous and long-lasting.
cyberax · 31d ago
Small-scale local charities are fine, but they are by definition _local_.
And even the poorest parts of the US are doing much better than a lot of poor countries in Africa and Asia.
yupitsme123 · 31d ago
Yes they're local, but its not like there's a limit to how many local charities there can be in the world.
Operating at a huge scale requires you to lump people together into groups and make assumptions about who they are and what they deserve, as you've done in your example. To me that sounds antithetical to the concept of charity. And even with the best intentions, if you mess up, you're messing up a huge scale.
cyberax · 31d ago
I can't reasonably be expected to assess which local charities in Chad are even real. I don't think there are _any_, in fact.
yupitsme123 · 31d ago
Charity just means helping someone. Do you think no one in Chad needs or is offering help? And if you don't know anyone in Chad who's in need of charity then...why do you want to do charity in Chad?
It seems that our notion of charity has been warped in such a way that it somehow doesn't count unless it's some enormous large-scale mission carried about by Charity, Inc for the benefit of some group of people far away. It's all very abstract, and that just creates room for fraud or exploitation.
Paying off a local person's debts or putting their child through college will probably be far more impactful and meaningful than sending your money off to some giant organization.
prvc · 32d ago
Have to disagree about the 'effective' part. Gates seems to have had a knack for massive inefficiencies and negative externalities in every way that he has impacted the world. Think of how many man-hours (measured in human lifetimes) have been wasted due to the shortcomings of various MicroSoft programs. Weigh that against his health initiatives in the third world. Or the impact of dimming the sun by depositing massive quantities of particles in the atmosphere: the resources consumed and carbon emissions that placing them would entail, and of course the intended effect, which is to impede human progress as measured by the Kardashev scale. Everything starts to look much more efficient if this is taken as the goal, though.
mgraczyk · 32d ago
Helping to cure polio doesn't outweigh imagined future harms by George engineering that didn't happen yet?
ok123456 · 32d ago
He's not curing polio, though. His polio program is spreading it because they use a live virus, and a low percentage of the population is getting it. People are now getting paralytic polio from others who got the vaccine.
This is just one example of the Kreuger-Dunning that permeates all aspects of the Gates Foundation. His interventions have been mainly disasters, distorted public policy, and gobbled up biotech IP in the process. He controls the money spicket and is very petty and cocksure about what is "right." Researchers and public policy experts who disagree with his ideas get cut off.
Governments should set public health policy and manage the needs of their people, not billionaires, biotech companies, or NGOs.
cyberax · 31d ago
> He's not curing polio, though. His polio program is spreading it because they use a live virus
Wow. Just wow. Where the heck do you get this garbage from?
mgraczyk · 31d ago
OPV unfortunately does cause paralytic polio disease indirectly by infecting unvaccinated people. It's worth it IMO because the total number of paralyzed people has decreased, but in the long term we have to switch to IPV to completely eliminate polio. This will take decades and many billions of dollars though.
cyberax · 31d ago
Yes, it's called cVDPV. It's caused by the virus in the live vaccine "unweakening" itself, and it's typically happening in people with weakened immune systems (e.g. from chronic malnutrition). It's not causing unvaccinated people to get infected, per se.
Most cases are mild, and on average there are about 300-400 cases per _year_ for the entire world.
But it's absolutely heinous to accuse Gates of deliberately infecting people with the live virus. The weakened vaccine has been the standard for polio vaccination for the last 80 years. There is simply no alternative for it for places like DRC or Chad. Inactivated vaccines require refrigeration and injections, and this is not feasible.
We're >.< this close to eradicating polio: https://polioeradication.org/wild-poliovirus-count/ - there are only two countries with the wild virus. A little bit more, and we can actually stop vaccinating from polio altogether.
mgraczyk · 31d ago
I largely agree, but there is essentially no possibility of ever eradicating polio with the current OPV strategy.
If you stop vaccinating, cVDPV will spread person to person. Some people carry virus for decades and it can become infectious at any time, many years after they were first vaccinated or infected. There will sparse but significant episodes until all humans who were vaccinated with OPV (or infected with the wild virus) have died.
but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it!
It's ok if we don't eradicate the virus. The point is to prevent children from being paralyzed, and it works for that.
pclmulqdq · 31d ago
Unfortunately, if you look at the situation with type 2, you will see what happens when OPV stops too early (and type 2 is a much less aggressive disease than type 1). In a perfect world, OPV cessation happens in most healthy communities rather soon, while the people who are in need of a much stronger vaccine continue to get OPV.
Also, Gates's pet project of a novel OPV has been shown to have caused a few confirmed cases of VAPP now, so it seems that project won't save OPV.
Essentially the best hope for eradicating polio within 20 years seems to be giving out a lot of OPV to places like Afghanistan and the DRC and forcing the local warlord to give it to the kids who need it (the latter has generally been a total failure of the Gates project). Once OPV gets wild-type and cVDPV outbreaks under control, a global switch to IPV seems safe to prevent future outbreaks. But, to get there, it seems a very aggressive OPV campaign is necessary compared to where we are now. It may take a militarized organization to do this, also, given the fact that you necessarily have to deal with tribal warlords. Shame we don't have USAID any more...
We aren't going to do that because it seems we generally aren't capable of doing that. So we're likely stuck with a decent amount of polio for a long time.
cyberax · 31d ago
cVDPV outbreaks die out on their own, and the newer vaccines are designed to be less likely to escape.
People also don't carry the virus for decades. That's a myth. People with a weakened immune system can get infected with polio even after a childhood vaccination, so that's probably where this myth comes from.
mgraczyk · 31d ago
It's not a myth at all, off the top of my head I know of at least two cases studies including the study that led to the discovery that remdesivir may treat polio
Immunocompromised hosts can shed infectious polio for their entire lives.
These outbreaks sometimes die on their own, but there's no reason to believe they wouldn't spread widely if we completely stopped vaccinating
mgraczyk · 31d ago
There are issues with the oral vaccines, but what you're saying is completely untrue. The total number of paralyzed kids has gone down dramatically as a result of the work Gates has done. By any metric, this is a good thing
codr7 · 31d ago
Plus, he wouldn't touch a project he couldn't make a profit from somehow.
People don't change much.
mgraczyk · 31d ago
How does he profit from giving away all of his money?
codr7 · 31d ago
Dig deep enough and there's always a kickback, some business he's involved in that profits one way or the other.
mgraczyk · 31d ago
Do you have any examples?
codr7 · 31d ago
No, I don't collect these things, I prefer to spend as little time as possible thinking about Bill Gates.
But everything you could possibly want to know is a Google search away.
mgraczyk · 31d ago
I tried to find something but couldn't find any evidence that he's received a kickback for any charity
Which sounds more like the BG I know from back in the days.
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therein · 31d ago
Yup, the Gates worship is incredibly sad.
codr7 · 31d ago
I don't get how it happened, it's like an epidemic on this site.
It's not like it takes a lot of effort to find out the truth about that scumbag.
adwf · 31d ago
Forgive me if I find it somewhat difficult to take seriously an argument by a person judging progress on the Kardashev scale...
You could pick some slightly less sci-fi measures like "number of trivially preventable deaths from diseases for which we have vaccines", for example.
modo_mario · 32d ago
Last time he pledged to give away half his wealth over x years didn't it basically tripple during that period?
DavidSJ · 32d ago
MSFT is up 18x during that time and the S&P 500 is up 5x during that time. His investments are some mixture of MSFT and other things, so we might say he would have been up around 10x if he'd given no money away.
Since his net worth is only up 3x, that means he gave away about 70% of his wealth.
willvarfar · 32d ago
He won't have given away 70% of his wealth. If he gave away a dollar at the beginning that is 10 dollars that dollar didn't turn into etc.
monooso · 32d ago
AFAIK he didn't give it all away in one lump sum at the start.
DavidSJ · 26d ago
First giving away X% and then getting a Y% return on investment has exactly the same effect on his wealth as first getting a Y% return and then giving away X%.
So to determine X, we can just ask how much money he’d have now had he not given any away, and it looks like he has about 70% less than that.
modo_mario · 32d ago
He said he would do it over 5 years. MSFT was up roughly 2x not 18x
DavidSJ · 31d ago
However long he took, he has ~70% less wealth than he would have had if he didn't do it. If it took him longer, that only means he gave the wealth after it had more time to appreciate.
modo_mario · 27d ago
How? Why do you take him at face value?
You confidently gave an explanation earlier that was hogwash.
gtirloni · 32d ago
The end goal isn't for him to be poor-ish but to do something supposedly useful with the money he has today.
melling · 32d ago
Maybe it’ll triple again and he’ll throw in a cure for cancer(s) or Alzheimer’s.
bravoetch · 32d ago
He does mention existing support for programs related to Alzheimer's research in the article.
tootie · 32d ago
It's part of the strategy. He endowed a giant philanthropic org. You can leverage an endowment by investing it aggressively and spending the proceeds to keep the fund running indefinitely. What he is now announcing is a pivot to start spending principal so the endowment starts to shrink until it hits zero.
legitster · 32d ago
Same thing happened to Buffet.
bee_rider · 32d ago
It seems weird to write this, but:
In the billionaire’s defense, he probably didn’t plan on us as a society deciding to shoveling money at his class as quickly as we possibly could.
jjj123 · 32d ago
You really think his team didn’t plan on or even help lobby for that?
jsbg · 32d ago
Did it triple because the assets he owns tripled in value?
modo_mario · 32d ago
In which case he didn't actually charitably give away any of those assets I'd assume?
CIPHERSTONE · 31d ago
I don't see his post as an attempt to self-promote as some commenters here have made. To what purpose? He's already known to most adults, already rich beyond anyone could possibly dream to be. And it sounds like from the post that he already had this path planned albeit several decades after his death.
I think accelerating that timeline is a good thing as I think he will be better than anyone who came after to direct how the funds as applied.
dennis_jeeves2 · 30d ago
>I don't see his post as an attempt to self-promote
Appears to be more along lines of approval from others, which is a type of self-promotion if you will. IMHO a true do-gooder would go about his philanthropy/help/charity with zero publicity and would actively shun any.
gantron · 29d ago
> To what purpose?
Steel-manning: Gates has run a deliberate PR campaign for decades to rehabilitate his reputation. In the 80s & 90s (before the Gates Foundation) he was known as a ruthless corporate tactician who crushed competitors like ants and earned a federal antitrust suit against Microsoft. Prior to his divorce he had a widely-publicized affair with a subordinate. He befriended Jeffrey Epstein and appeared in his flight logs after Epstein had already been convicted of soliciting prostitution from a minor. (Gates has worked very hard to distance himself from Epstein since then - another example of the PR machine at work).
Someone who wants to paint the least charitable picture possible of Gates could factually describe him as a cutthroat businessman and a philanderer who associated with a pedophile on at least a few documented occasions. And that's ignoring the nuttier Gates conspiracy theories (e.g., Covid microchips).
Sure, everyone knows him. But he'd rather be known as a voracious reader who fought polio & malaria and provided drinkable water to millions. Not a bad use of his billions - what else could he spend those on that would materially affect his life?
Ecstatify · 31d ago
It looks like he’s been focused on building his public image over the past few years, perhaps aiming for a Nobel Prize.
mikkelam · 32d ago
>While I respect anyone’s decision to spend their days playing pickleball, that life isn’t quite for me—at least not full time. I’m lucky to wake up every day energized to go to work
Bit of an unfair comparison though.. Most people dont retire from a job where you're literally handing people money.
That said, I'm a huge fan Bill's work post-microsoft :)
codr7 · 31d ago
He did a good job at cleaning up his public image, no doubt that cost quite a fortune.
Still the same greedy asshole though.
Blankono · 31d ago
I don't think at all he is a greedy asshole. He did more good than anywone else on the planet at this point.
Alone his money and the pledge he pused is breathaking.
Why would you say he is a greedy asshole while he spends all his money to help humans?
Trump is greedy. Musk thinks probably he is good but is greedy as f and wants to go to mars because he thinks earth cant be saved anymore. But Gates?
codr7 · 28d ago
I don't need you to repeat the propaganda, I know what the official narrative is. And it's mostly lies, especially the part about Gates suddenly turning from asshole to saint.
Blankono · 22d ago
Interesting. I would not have thought, that on hn a normal discussion with arguments and sources is not possible. But hey you seem to pref to comment for the comment sake not for discussion.
Blankono · 27d ago
'propaganda'?
First of, i do know his history very well, i'm quite aware that he was not a saint before but that doesn't change the fact what he is currently doing and it is very good.
Do you have anything real? Like real talking points? Real sources? aything besides just shitting at him?
remus · 32d ago
No criticism of the man, but I think he may fail in this part of his goal
> People will say a lot of things about me when I die, but I am determined that "he died rich" will not be one of them.
It's easy to forget how absurdly wealthy the very richest in society are. Say he started this initiative on his 70th birthday and he's spreading his giving fairly lineraly over the next 20 years but dies just 1 day short of his 90th birthday, he'd still have about $13,698,630 to his name. I think most would consider someone with that money to their name rich.
999900000999 · 32d ago
>The Gates Foundation’s mission remains rooted in the idea that where you are born should not determine your opportunities.
Arguably he's already done so much for billions of people. Had typing on computers not became the main way businesses communicate , anyone with bad, handwriting would be stuck in menial work.
When I was growing up in the 90s my hand writing was so bad it was assumed I would never amount to anything.
Then computers completely take over all aspects of business in the early 2000s. No one is writing TPS reports by hand.
All of a sudden my horrible handwriting doesn't matter. It's still really bad. But I've made 6 figures for well over a decade, along with an amazing year at about 200k.
None of this would of been possible without Gates. I also owe the creator of Android Andy Rubin. It's been a while ( and it might of been one of the other co founders), but I was able to thank Rubin. His response was something like "Well, we still need to get building applications working on Android."
I've also been able to thank( on this forum) Brendan Eich, the inventor of my first programming language, JavaScript. Amazingly humble for someone who helped create trillions in wealth.
Apart of me thinks Gates could still lead some innovation in computing. I hope somehow he's still coding under a pseudonym perhaps, and occasionally answering tech questions.
I suspect he believes that these causes need shock therapy. To eradicate a disease, you are better off doing it all in one go.
I also wonder if he looks at something like the Ford Foundation and realize in the long run that any charitable trust will just turn into an overstuffed political advocacy group that does little to advance his charities or even his legacy.
Ford Foundation is a great example of what can happen. Olin is a good example of a foundation that was set up to dissolve after some length of time.
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-08-11-fi-2620-s...
There's always something to learn from everyone. Elon reiterated one thing frequently - "We have to get to Mars soon because I don't want to be dead before it happens" (paraphrasing). If this philosophy is used for the right purpose, we can get some cool things happening sooner. Recent events also show that there are people who are not interested in being charitable at all, so it's even more of an imperative.
I don't think that is the assumption. The assumption is that people will treat them well for planning to give away their money without them needing to live their life without their precious wealth.
The benefit of wealth is your capacity to spend it. If they don't spend it in order to give it away on a future date, they have lived their lives without it.
You can say that they are selfishly maintain optionality while they are alive, but that's a less biting critique, I guess.
At a much smaller scale I've thought about a small city place and concluded it just wasn't worth the effort vs. renting at a nice time of the year.
In fact the acceleration seems like it’s happening because it has suddenly become far easier to identify unnecessary deaths because someone who shall remain nameless here lied about fraud in US Aid and cancelled all their funding leaving millions of people to die unnecessarily deaths.
Gates decided to step up and prevent as many of those deaths as possible in his lifetime.
I understand the idea of learning from everyone, even those whose values I strongly disagree with.
But after learning about everything Elon has done in the public sphere, would this statement be more likely just narcissism rather than a deep and inspiring virtue?
We may be closer to going to Mars, an extremely inhospitable place, at far greater expense than simply making the world we were evolved to survive in a little better.
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(And then, of course, given his enthusiasm for AI, there is a major question of whether 'keeping your powder dry' is a huge mistake - one way or the other.)
But I think current AI (not where it might be in a few months or years) is absolutely amazing for disadvantaged people. Access to someone who's average is so freaking cool if you don't already have it. Used correctly it's a free math tutor, a free editor for any papers you write, a free advice nurse.
This sucks in a business setting but I could see it being incredible in a charitable setting. When businesses try to replace someone great with something average it sucks. But if you're replacing something non-existent with something average, that can be life changing.
I'm an AI skeptic and I can empathize with his AI enthusiasm given the problems he's trying to address (or at least professes to be trying to address).
Interestingly, I think AI, if its biggest boosters are correct, will end up being an absolute disaster for disadvantaged people.
The fact is that the vast majority of people in the current world are able to survive by selling their labor. If AI makes it so that, say, 50% of the world's population is no longer able to survive by selling their labor, that leads to massive serfdom, not some sort of Star Trek utopia.
And the thing that is shocking to me is that I haven't seen any (like, absolutely zero) credible explanation from AI boosters of how this dystopian end state is avoidable. I've either heard misdirection (e.g. yes, I agree AI is amazing at what it can do, but that doesn't explain how people will eat if they don't have jobs), vague handwavy-ness, or "kumbaya talk" about stuff like basic income that seems to completely ignore human nature.
I would absolutely love to be convinced I'm wrong, but that would need to start with at least something approaching a rational argument as to how the benefits of AI will be more equally distributed, and I have yet to hear that.
I think you’re on the right track, and, alongside the scale of service (reaching more people and more topics with an average level of advice or recognition), there’s a second component to it: scale of analysis. The newly possible solutions that AI advances have created include more than those famous models that answer broad prompts with art, copy, or code.
They also include focused, sometimes incomprehensible tasks which can only be done at an impactful scale due to the creation of deep learning and advances in compute-inexpensive language understanding, computer vision, and audio analysis:
A network of affordable, durable, solar powered, LoRa meshed audio sensors analyzed by a model to diagnose changes in the biodiversity of the Amazon and other rainforests (via ambient bird and animal calls across thousands of species). Visual analysis done on a cheap camera network estimates herd sizes of larger, silent animals.
A model that analyzes satellite imagery to evaluate major shifts in the industrial use of land, including tracking the national development of solar farms to evaluate nations receiving new energy grants.
A social analysis bot that tracks the rapid introduction of propaganda narratives or intentional agitation by foreign state actors (Russian bot farms), including building a map of associated IPs. Sadly, the social networks basically shrugged when given this data, so Msft gave it to LEAs.
These things are being done at a scale that would be incomprehensible to an organization of people.
Scale of analysis tasks are still, IMO the smartest use of AI today, despite the fashionable trend of GPT and the promise of AGI. A few models to spark ideas:
Recognition tasks with a dictionary too deep for human experts to grok when scaled up - like identifying thousands of wildlife
Recognition tasks with a timescale too rapid or sudden for human attention - Amazon Prime Vision predicting a QB sack in a football game before it happens
Recognition tasks when human vigilance or sensitivity would miss an occasional or slight occurrence - measuring eccentricities in electrical signals, vibrations, etc. to predict the failure of industrial equipment
It is good for the other use cases, but it is the worst possible source of advice on subjects where the user has no expertise, and where there are serious health or safety consequences for getting it wrong.
Same goes for the others, if you have the means I think you should get a tutor or an editor as well.
However, if you’re choosing between nothing and an llm then the llm starts to become a great option.
I used to work rescue and if I had caught one of my coworkers asking an llm how to treat a patient I would have flipped.
But if I had rolled up to an incident and some Good Samaritan was trying to help out by using an llm that would be awesome!
Call a professional for help. Are they breathing, is their heart beating, are they bleeding.
If you haven’t called someone that can actually save the persons life no amount of first aid will help.
Unfortunately unless something is obviously preventing breathing as someone untrained theres not a lot you can do if they aren’t breathing.
Heart beating is pretty easy, chest compressions…
Bleeding again, pressure, and a lot of it to try to prevent the bleeding.
I would want to check what an AI response is to some situations but as long as it just tackles those cases it can probably only do more good than harm.
Id be more worried some good samaritan would start cutting people to try to “get an airway” or some nonsense. That would significantly increase mortality rates…
The only case I've experienced where it wasn’t was when someone in our area was actively listening in in emergency channels and trying to preempt ambulances. The issue was that they had training in the basics but often went past that in care they provided. Something that I believe is not covered by Good Samaritan laws.
I’m much more worried about folks like that than people who find themselves in an emergency and are trying to help.
In some rural area of Africa they came across a car crash. Two people hop out and assist while a third drives off to notify someone to send emergency help.
An on device LLM might be very useful there depending on what it says…
I have shown up at scenes where people have googled what to do though and, you know what, it was super helpful.
If someone is dumb enough to perform a tracheotomy because an llm, google, or a passerby told them to. The issue isn’t any of those factors. That person is just so incredibly dumb as to be a danger to everyone around them.
People also do amazingly dumb things because a piece of software with a tone of authority told them to do it, even when they're not under duress. Look at the number of people who find themselves stranded or dead because they uncritically followed the directions of a navigation app, and who weren't in a panic state when they did it.
...this is a really interesting idea, but I'm not sure if it's entirely true?
If we're talking about a business's core competency, I think the assertion makes sense. You need to be better than your competition.
But businesses also need a whole lot of people to work in human resources, file taxes, and so on. (Not to mention clean bathrooms, but that's less relevant to the generative AI discussion.) I can certainly imagine how having a world-class human resource team could provide a tire manufacturer with a competitive advantage. However, if those incredible HR employees are also more expensive, it might make more sense to hire below-average people to do your HR and invest more in tire R&D.
I think my sense is that the zeitgeist around AI (at least in business circles) is much more “The only way to ensure our continued survival is by embracing ai in all our core competencies” than “your tire company is going to have some adequate hr for a great price.”
An example that springs to mind is the arms race between tech CEOs over who can have more of their code base written by llms.
It’s amazing tech and it seems like it’s being marketed for all the wrong things based off of some future promise of super intelligence.
I really liked the article posted on here a week or two back along the lines of AI is a normal technology. Imo, the most sane narrative I’ve read about where this tech is at.
...if I was really cynical, I might say that one of the reasons you might want a "world class" HR team is in order to break the law, or come really close to the line, without getting caught, in a way that increases profits.
In that sense, I suspect targeted and planned large investments into charities with scalable plans is a lot more efficient than years of trickle donations.
Gates moved $50 billion into a tax-exempt entity he controls, avoided all capital gains tax, secured over $11 billion in total tax benefits, and only needs to distribute 5% of the foundation’s assets annually, all while retaining effective control and reaping massive reputational returns.
This is nothing more than tax optimization for billionaires and can guarantee you the private plane bills, security costs, hotel suites are invoiced to the foundation...
People who believe this, also believe Warren Buffet makes money by value investing and picking stocks. Warren Buffet who by the way also used the Gates foundation for tax optimization to the tune of avoiding 20 billion in capital gains tax.
If politicians wanted they could set a 95% tax on billionaires tomorrow, just like next Monday, and none of these 250 individuals would have the minor inconvenience of their lifestyle. It seems to be possible for tariffs...But those are a tax on the other 99% tax payers. It happens overnight...
Such a smart guy, but not smart enough to stay away from Epstein...
Many will say Bill is attempting to reshape his legacy and narrative post-Epstein.
The most important thing is that money is being returned to society on an accelerated timeline.
Without this redistribution of wealth from billionaires back to especially the middle and lower classes we are headed for violent revolution on a massive scale.
Hopefully other billionaires redistribute during their lifetimes to address housing, education and health issues as well.
Anyways, the type of person who can earn a lot of money in this economy, and the type of person who can best decide how to spend it altruistically, are almost certainly not the same person. The person who earned the money certainly understand this. Yet. Here we are.
Your cynicism is failing you.
The psycopaths that have accumilated all the money in the world are certain that they are the type of person who can best decide everything in the world on any topic, especially when it comes to people poorer than them - which is of course everyone.
Too many well-intentioned organizations wind up milquetoast tax-exempt hedge funds aimed primarily at self-preservation because the received wisdom is that they should focus on building endowments and keep their withdrawal rates below 4% in order to achieve immortality.
I'm a big believer in research-driven philanthropy and mission-driven organizations. But i've seen the institutional desire for self-preservation supersede essential purposes at a few of them, with disastrous implications for their effectiveness.
The Gates foundation probably controls ~5% of the ~$2T that charitable foundations have in endowments globally. If the majority of these organizations adopted these sorts of depletion goals, their program budgets could probably more than double.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Ha ha, well here's mine. First, I'm way ahead of Mr Gates: I'm already worth almost nothing.
But if I had billions to give, I would be supporting Science Education, Democracy and Journalism. Scholarships for bright, motivated students.
With all due respect to Mr G, I don't believe any of his objectives is possible with stable, educated, science-orientated social progress. Humanity depends on it.
Which charities are giving away less than 4% a year? Charitable foundations in the US are required to give away at least 5% of their endowment a year:
https://www.ncfp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/The-Five-Per...
All money spent is voting for allocation of resource. Sometimes there is too much money fighting the same goods in which case it may not be a good allocation of resources. That money can sit to become more money.
At a personal level, because wealth sitting still, having 4% pay for the overhead of maintaining the 96% and then using the pennies left doesn't accomplish much of significance.
Charities that aren't actually spending money to do good are just banks in disguise. Banks that don't pay out interest. Why would anyone donate even one cent to banks?
Even if you trick-feed donations to charity over 100 years, the sums may be insufficient to reach a usable scale. - A big investment in research. - A concentrated push to vaccinate against a Disease so it goes away for good. - An infrastructure investment that lifts a community out of poverty.
These themselves produce "good over time," perhaps even faster than the money in the fund rises in value. It's a balance, but immortal trickle donations are likely quite far off to one direction of that scale.
In the 50's the Congress in US was getting suspicious about those foundations already. There were a investigation for it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_Select_Com...
Depends on investments. Arguably tech advances are more effective for alleviating hunger than direct food donations long term.
I havent looked, and frankly can't be bothered [0], but I expect that even after giving away an unfathomable amount of money, the foundation and gates are probably richer (dollar net worth) than they have ever been.
It has been sat in investments, they have been giving it away, but they can't keep up with it.
[0] Turns out I could be - https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/william-h-ga...
Gates is thousands of times better than most. He and Melinda have done more good for the world than all but a few handfuls of individuals. I've heard estimates his original MSFT stake would be worth over a trillion dollars now.
Linus Torvalds did more for the world than Bill Gates, IMHO. And he didn't need to set up a system that first appropriates money in order to "be generous" later.
400k to 4k is not 400k to 0. Eradication means 0. People don't get smallpox vaccines today because we hit 0. American children get ~4 doses of IPV still, despite what you are claiming as "eradication."
That's amazing and I am very happy I live in a world where someone helped that many people, regardless of who you compare their accomplishments to.
If he manages to bring the project over the finish line, I will celebrate his achievement. At this point, signs point to failure of the GPEI being a near certainty. Unfortunately, we'll be back to 400k in about 10-15 years if we give up at this point.
Calling a few hundred reported cases a year globally "very, very common" is... a stretch. You have better odds of getting struck by lightning.
For all intents and purposes, yes, cVDPV is the same thing as WPV. There have actually been instances where cVDPVs have evolved into things that look quite a bit like WPV. Declaring victory over "type 2/3" because WPV is gone is meaningless when lots of people still get cVDPV and have exactly the same symptoms.
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An alternative would be that company like Microsoft couldn't gain so much wealth, simply because their revenue would be capped / taxed high enough that the extra money they make goes back directly to people and governments
In this case, *everyone* gets to vote and choose for what philanthropies the amount gets used, rather than having just "one guy" deciding for himself how to spend all this money, which is prone to errors
Also, as a recommendation, you guys should look into whether your employer matches charitable donations to 501Cs in any amount. I find giving a solid chunk of my discretionary budget to charity every year lends a sense of purpose to a job that wouldn't otherwise have much (at least, in the sense of helping others).
I enjoy being a dev, and I've given serious thought to simply continuing working once I reach my FIRE number and donating half of what I earn to charity. I think most charities would have more use for my money than my time, given my disability
Strictly speaking, the foundation discourages individuals from donating directly to them, mostly because the tax treatment of giving that way isn't necessarily favorable. They've set up Gates Philanthropy Partners as a 501(c)(3) charity which is aligned to the same philanthropic goals.
(Of course there's also many other worthwhile players in the broader EA space.)
It'd be smarter to see who they are giving money to (which is all public) and give directly to those orgs. The Gates foundation itself spends a lot of money on consultants, "government engagement" (aka lobbying by another name), and fancy dinners.
That's fine or maybe even noble for a family foundation, but it's probably not something individuals would want to fund.
Are you sure about that?
Let's say every employee gets a $1000 round trip flight, plus $2000 for 4 nights in a decent hotel, a total of $3000 per head. Are you telling me that employee is paid $1000 a year or less?
I find this dishonest.
And i find your point regarding 'fancy dinners' weird. You do know why they might spend money on this right? For doing lobbying which leads to real impact. Your 'fancy dinner' might be the difference between a political decision in favour for the right thing vs. some other company lobbying for the opposition.
If he was really serious about giving away his money, he could write a single check to the Red Cross || Doctors Without Borders || insert charity here and in five minutes be done with it.
The world doesn't need more vanity charities. It needs its existing charities to be better funded.
They can also lose or squander it. One of the Gates Foundation’s value adds is monitoring.
I’ve tried volunteering at certain orgs before, I filled out forms and literally they rejected me because they had no more staff to organise and oversee more volunteers.
If your solution is just invest it, well, the Gates Foundation may as well hang on to it (you think you can do better job than Buffet?) and setup a system to dole it out.
If the org has to find new uses for it, surely the Gates Foundation is in a better position to get that done?
Just googling it delivers enough critisism on worst level than you think Bill Gates Foundation is: "misusing funds, poor logistical planning, inadequate responses to specific crises, and even allegations of fraud and theft. "
Impact matters. Impact doesn't mean to just give money to some organization. Bill Gates actually played a significant role in Ebola vacination. Why? Because he/his team revisted why just giving out vacines was not enough.
Impact means helping as efficient as possible with the money.
And btw. a lot of other charities of this style (especially christians ones we all know) have also borderline ways of missusing believers to do their work. My aunt worked for nuns and got paid shit. This is now a problem for her retirment. Guess who pays that? Yeah the state...
That seems like an incredibly stupid way to spend money that has been eradicating diseases and saving lives in countries where food insecurity isn’t a choice.
That’s what I mean. Like the housing shortage, food insecurity is trivially solved if voters cared about it. We don’t at almost every political level.
It's a funny day when you're feeling charitable, but go out of your way to avoid helping the entity that should be the ideal charitable recipient.
Let's say you just won the startup lottery and you've got a significant amount of now tradable stock. Some of which was early exercised and the cost basis is effectively zero. Some of which was RSUs or non-qualified options and you owe ordinary income. And that you're way over into the top tax brackets.
If your zero cost basis stock is Qualified Small Business Stock (QSBS), there's a very nice discount on federal capital gains, so you might not need to do the rest of the stuff.
Otherwise, if you donate your apprechiated zero basis stock, you get to save federal capital gains of 20% + 3.8% net investment income. Plus it offsets against your ordinary income that's 37%. So that's a 60.8% discount on being charitable for the feds. If you live in California, capital gains are regular income, so you're saving 13.3% because the capital gains go away and offsetting 13.3% on your ordinary income, so your total discount is 87.4%. In other words, your difference in cash after taxes for selling $1M of zero basis stock or donating $1M of zero basis stock is $126k.
When the government is telling you it only costs $126k to give a charity $1M, it's pretty compelling. The math used to be different, when you'd get credit for state taxes on the federal return, but that was many years ago now.
People with lots of money and power get their representatives to pass laws that reduce their taxes.
You lowering your tax rate and giving that money to charity isn't magicking more money into the world, it is just a different allocation.
The government's tax income is allocated by the masses (in theory anyway). It is fair and dispassionate.
Philanthropy / charity is picking winners and losers based on your personal whims, and for many it is about gaining social capital.
In order to improve global health or address other issues that impact countries beyond where you live, the government (even an idealized version without waste, corruption, or political games) might not be the most effective way to accomplish this.
What I find kind of interesting is that Bill Gates and Warren Buffet argue that they should be taxed more, but they don't do anything to further that goal aside from media soundbites and headlines. They could fund an incredible war chest for a lobbying apparatus who's sole purpose would be to create a more fair tax system. But no such thing happens.
It seems fortunate that some charitable funds aren't subject to that risk. They have other risks, but they seem lower.
In an imperfect world, government funding alone seems insufficiency diversified. That's too much power in one place.
This is only ever true if you assume that government tax spending is 100% efficient, with nary a fraction of a cent being wasted. I don't think that's a safe assumption.
We're doing better now than we were 50 years ago, but the Nords are light years ahead.
It's a gross comparison.
How they spend their oil resources is also quite different. :)
Or a school admin system built for 100 million dollars and crap. They even spent a lot of money trying to prevent a open source client that solved a lot of the issues they had.
Maybe in absolute money it is less than the US. But remember US also have a lot more people.
The waste, fraud, and abuse that runs rampant throughout the government tells us that the powerful often use taxpayer dollars as their own slush fund.
Sure the government does much to relieve the suffering of people around the globe; but it could do far more with substantially less.
I don't know that it's worse than any other institution? At least voters can remove the corrupt, and they are prosecuted. Are you saying these uber-wealthy and CEOs aren't just as corrupt or worse?
More often than not, corruption in government does not result in the perpetrator being prosecuted or even removed from office.
I am amazed at all the people who are so sure that corporations and/or wealthy investors are corrupt, but give big government a pass. As if the same types of people don't run both.
Its probably not so much that government gets a pass as much as government is the organization that, by virtue of being a citizen, they own and control, so when things go wrong it is their own fault, and they really don't want to accept blame for their own faults. They would have to ask "How did I manage to fuck this up?", which is a hard question for most people to ask themselves.
When it is distinctly someone else's organization it's much easier to throw pointless shade to make one feel better about their own failings.
Where do you find these people? I've never met them. It seems like everyone complains about government waste and corruption - even when it's not happening!
If we're talking specifically about the U.S. government, I suspect its decisions cause more suffering globally than they alleviate, though of course there are open philosophical questions inherent in any attempt to quantify suffering.
I think there is value to letting people allocate some percentage of their income directly to causes they are passionate about. Even if you assume the government is efficient and not bloated, and benevolent, this lets people contribute to causes without waiting for political consensus, or to smaller causes that would not be on the government's radar (yet) or ever. It's more pluralistic. It lets smaller causes bloom. It keeps me civically engaged.
On a personal note, I do take issue with the amounts spent on "defense" (which is often bombing people or threatening to directly or indirectly), and would rather help folks than bomb other folks.
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Of course, you wouldn't expect them to be the ideal charity; they are explicitly not a charity. Anyone who is actually trying to be a charity should have little trouble using funds more charitably than any government in the world.
But guess what? If you give too much power to a position, people who want to abuse the power will try to get themselves there.
I wasn't upset that Obama was consolidating power because I thought Obama would abuse it. I'm upset that he consolidated power and then left it to whoever would come next, and then has the gall to be surprised that consolidating power under the Executive would undermine the power of the Legislature the moment a President who was willing to abuse said power was sworn in.
We're cooked because of the fucking team sports. Both parties have had the chance to reign in the Executive and neither has the balls to use it against their own guy
Even in qualitative terms, the "consolidation" was incorrect. Congress abdicated its responsibilities, and the Federal agencies picked up the slack. They're not controlled _centrally_, it's not like Obama was ordering agencies to write particular rules.
We now see what the central consolidated control actually looks like.
The problem with leaving everything to private charity is that only the wealthy people and churches doing the donating dictate what counts as "public good" without you and I having any say over it. We luck out when the donor has good intentions and chooses to donate to an organization doing good, and we have no say when the donor has evil intentions and chooses to donate elsewhere. Allowing a small handful of rich donors to decide what counts as a good cause is not ideal.
It is problematic even with good intentions.
People don't have time, expertise or usually even the motive to systematically examine ROI. They or someone they know has a 'good cause' and they support it. For example, endowments at their alma mater - likely a school for wealthy kids, new buildings for the hospital (that serves wealthy people), new research in diseases that are problems for the wealthy, etc.
They can't know without talking to people who have experience with poverty, for example, and those aren't the people coming to dinner tonight.
The thing about public goods is that people tend to agree pretty closely about what they are. The wealthiest person in the world benefits from, e.g. clean air just as much as you do. You should be a lot more worried about wealthy folks who don't donate to charity and just spend the money on big luxury yachts and the like, because these folks are essentially free-riding on everyone else.
Is there some data that shows that?
> The wealthiest person in the world benefits from, e.g. clean air just as much as you do.
We can find public goods in common for many groups, but that's actually a bad example. Wealthy people care about clean air in their neighborhood; pollution is therefore concentrated in poor areas. They don't site the new incerator (or drug treatment facility) on the Upper East Side of Manhatten.
Many needs are specific to poverty. For example, wealthy people are not subject to malaria; they are no illiterate; they don't need toilets or labor rights; they can afford college for their kids regardless of tuition; they have unlimited access to safe, fresh, healthy food. They don't need more available and less expensive health care, so they donate to cancer research and high-tech therapy and not to the medical clinic in the poor neighborhood.
I also agree that wealthy folks spending their wealth on luxury yachts while the public suffers is also something to worry about. Who knew? Gargantuan wealth inequalities are mostly downside for everyone but the wealthy!
Of course not. It's quite literally just the people. If you cannot trust the people with your charitable donations, but still wish to donate to a person, then you're going to have to narrow that down to the specific person you can trust (i.e. your friends). There is no in-between.
Another, much larger aspect of government, especially democratic, is people getting together and doing things as a community that can't be done individually.
People getting together and doing things as a community does not require a government. We can and should do that of our own free will. That's not to say governments aren't needed. But labeling them as "people getting together and doing things as a community" ignores their ability to enforce their laws, including the sanctioned use of violence or the threat of violence to coerce people into obeying or to punish them.
That may be true, but government (at least a democratic one) is just people getting together and doing things, so if you already have one you can save the effort of the community trying to organize a second community on top of the community they already have for no good reason.
> But labeling them as "people getting together and doing things as a community" ignores their ability to enforce their laws, including the sanctioned use of violence or the threat of violence to coerce people into obeying or to punish them.
That literally tells of people getting together and doing things. These are not magical powers. They are simply community action. I suppose it highlights that people getting together and doing things isn't all sunshine and rainbows, despite your apparent dream for a world where there is only happiness, but such is reality.
I expect the aversion is that those who wish to donate to charity only want their friends, not entire communities, to benefit. The "trouble" with a community at large is that everyone is able to participate, whether you like them or not. That's not to say that a community cannot see a charitable benefit indirectly, but the key point is that they want to keep the primary benefit away from strangers.
The government is the only one with a legal monopoly on violence; it redistributes resources in the society and it's not run by incorruptible angels but by fallible human beings - human beings who were put there thanks to investments of millions of dollars.
It's a recipe for disaster.
Government is a recipe for disaster? Democratic government has worked for centuries without disaster.
> it's not run by incorruptible angels but by fallible human beings - human beings who were put there thanks to investments of millions of dollars.
Yes, that is the trick of every human endeavor, the great ones and the failures. It depends on you and me - let's make it happen.
That may be logical, but it doesn't happen. I've had unpaid parking tickets for long periods and nobody showed up at all, much less with guns. Where do you live that they jail you for it, much less go out and find you? Your local government must be very well-funded to have resources for that, not to mention having a fascist attitude - how popular is that with constituents?
> People getting together and doing things as a community does not require a government.
It depends - many times it is the most or only effective way. It has decision-making mechanisms - including elected representatives, hearings, experts - and executive mechanisms including employees, equipment, contract managers, processes, institutional information such as maps of infrastructure, and loads of experience. Imagine some neighbors in NYC trying to put in just a new streetlight.
> But labeling them as "people getting together and doing things as a community" ignores their ability to enforce their laws, including the sanctioned use of violence or the threat of violence to coerce people into obeying or to punish them.
It doesn't ignore it, but your prior comment repeats the Internet trope that that's what goverment is - a coercive mechanism with guns. That's only one narrow aspect - the great majority of what government does, and how society works, has nothing to do with that. It's for the outlaws, not for the great majority.
If it is authoritarian, perhaps, but even that is still a matter of a group of people. Most seem to believe that government should be democratic. You may not find yourself in a democratic state, but that would only continue to contribute to what makes the day funny. Perhaps you didn't read the entire thread and are posting this without understanding the full context under which it is taking place?
But, again, that government is the very people we're talking about, at least as far as a democracy goes. Although even in the case of an authoritarian government, the individual authority is only as strong as the people are willing to go along with recognizing it, so it is not really that much different. No magic here, just people.
It's nothing to be proud of.
What you can be proud of is in REDUCING dictatorship, by removing power in centralised entities and giving it back to the individuals.
It is not - that would be some theoretical pure democracy, also called 'mob rule'. Democracy, as the word is actually used, requires universal human rights which protect the minority. For example, freedom of speech means the majority can't control the minority's speech, whether they like it or not.
Democracy also includes separation of powers, usually between legislature, executive, and judicial, which prevents the concentration of power.
> It's nothing to be proud of.
It's only something to be proud of if we make it that way.
Supporting government programs at the same time as you insist money could be better used elsewhere (at charities) is somewhat amusing.
You could be massively wrong about that. Many charities are desparate for IT help. I am a developer and volunteer at a charity. I have done some IT stuff for them (mostly setting up some Airtable databases) and it has been (modesty aside) transformative for them.
Can you provide some sources for this? I'm by no means an expert in this area, but my city happened to receive some of his modified A. Aegypti since 2017 and it didn't make the people here happy, at all. Though I don't even think there's a comprehensive study on how much good or harm came from it.
That's just insane. Bill Gates is absolutely not a good guy but you cannot be convinced to that given how much you idealize him. Have children. I would have replied to the sibling comment saying the same but comments become unreplyable once they get enough downvotes.
Of course, he could choose to not live a super-high consumption lifestyle in addition to his climate philanthopy, but if I had to take one or the other, I'd rather him continue throwing money at climate work than take fewer private jet rides.
And it’s not like we’re talking about some huge sacrifices here. Go from a 50K sqft house to a “modest” 10k sqft one. Don’t sail around on personal yachts. Fly commercial. Use Zoom. Simple stuff that would give them a lot more credibility. As it is, it’s a whole lot of “do as I say, not as I do.”
This has always been the sticking point for me when it comes to supporting large charities.
The way to fight climate change is to keep people at a low level of consumption, and spend his own money very slowly, very scarcely. And keep people with small cars, no Cadillac for any consultant.
Helping people out of poverty is really bad for the environment too but I don't think we should be complaining when someone does that.
On a global scale his yacht(s?) and private jets are nothing, and if it helps him do good by establishing/maintaining relationships with the right people they're an "investment" into a stopping climate change.
A bit of a naive take as opposed to yours.
If anyone deserves a bit of good faith it'd be the Gates family, it's probably not all pretty and perfect but I am convinced they're doing a lot of good.
You'll have to ask someone else about proof, but I imagine someone would've leaked something within these 25 years if they were running a tax evasion scheme or something else fishy.
So without hard proof I repeat: Let Bill have his toys, it's a piss in the bucket on a global scale and the donated 100 billion dollars will have offset that in some way or another many times over.
Let's just say my "sniff test" says good, and while not always right I think I am here and that's good enough for me.
I mean, having more than one of either already seems ridiculously wasteful to me, and I don't care if that's standard billionaire lifestyle.
How do you judge the actions of someone when those actions are powerful enough to move markets, take down regimes, and change people's lives for generations?
We take them at their word and assume that everything they do is well-intentioned and good and has zero negative impact or secondary effects, but is that really the case?
To me it seems like the only charity that can be trusted is a small-scale one that acts locally and with lots of transparency.
Maybe my judgement or efficiency is bad when I try to help my neighbor. Okay, whoopsie. Now apply that margin of error to a foundation whose decisions impact millions of people and possibly entire societies, possibly for generations. The unintended or possibly negative effects can be enormous and long-lasting.
And even the poorest parts of the US are doing much better than a lot of poor countries in Africa and Asia.
Operating at a huge scale requires you to lump people together into groups and make assumptions about who they are and what they deserve, as you've done in your example. To me that sounds antithetical to the concept of charity. And even with the best intentions, if you mess up, you're messing up a huge scale.
It seems that our notion of charity has been warped in such a way that it somehow doesn't count unless it's some enormous large-scale mission carried about by Charity, Inc for the benefit of some group of people far away. It's all very abstract, and that just creates room for fraud or exploitation.
Paying off a local person's debts or putting their child through college will probably be far more impactful and meaningful than sending your money off to some giant organization.
This is just one example of the Kreuger-Dunning that permeates all aspects of the Gates Foundation. His interventions have been mainly disasters, distorted public policy, and gobbled up biotech IP in the process. He controls the money spicket and is very petty and cocksure about what is "right." Researchers and public policy experts who disagree with his ideas get cut off.
Governments should set public health policy and manage the needs of their people, not billionaires, biotech companies, or NGOs.
Wow. Just wow. Where the heck do you get this garbage from?
Most cases are mild, and on average there are about 300-400 cases per _year_ for the entire world.
But it's absolutely heinous to accuse Gates of deliberately infecting people with the live virus. The weakened vaccine has been the standard for polio vaccination for the last 80 years. There is simply no alternative for it for places like DRC or Chad. Inactivated vaccines require refrigeration and injections, and this is not feasible.
We're >.< this close to eradicating polio: https://polioeradication.org/wild-poliovirus-count/ - there are only two countries with the wild virus. A little bit more, and we can actually stop vaccinating from polio altogether.
If you stop vaccinating, cVDPV will spread person to person. Some people carry virus for decades and it can become infectious at any time, many years after they were first vaccinated or infected. There will sparse but significant episodes until all humans who were vaccinated with OPV (or infected with the wild virus) have died.
but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it! It's ok if we don't eradicate the virus. The point is to prevent children from being paralyzed, and it works for that.
Also, Gates's pet project of a novel OPV has been shown to have caused a few confirmed cases of VAPP now, so it seems that project won't save OPV.
Essentially the best hope for eradicating polio within 20 years seems to be giving out a lot of OPV to places like Afghanistan and the DRC and forcing the local warlord to give it to the kids who need it (the latter has generally been a total failure of the Gates project). Once OPV gets wild-type and cVDPV outbreaks under control, a global switch to IPV seems safe to prevent future outbreaks. But, to get there, it seems a very aggressive OPV campaign is necessary compared to where we are now. It may take a militarized organization to do this, also, given the fact that you necessarily have to deal with tribal warlords. Shame we don't have USAID any more...
We aren't going to do that because it seems we generally aren't capable of doing that. So we're likely stuck with a decent amount of polio for a long time.
People also don't carry the virus for decades. That's a myth. People with a weakened immune system can get infected with polio even after a childhood vaccination, so that's probably where this myth comes from.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10022663/
Immunocompromised hosts can shed infectious polio for their entire lives.
These outbreaks sometimes die on their own, but there's no reason to believe they wouldn't spread widely if we completely stopped vaccinating
People don't change much.
But everything you could possibly want to know is a Google search away.
This took me about three clicks to find:
https://cagj.org/2020/04/the-nation-bill-gatess-charity-para...
Which sounds more like the BG I know from back in the days.
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It's not like it takes a lot of effort to find out the truth about that scumbag.
You could pick some slightly less sci-fi measures like "number of trivially preventable deaths from diseases for which we have vaccines", for example.
Since his net worth is only up 3x, that means he gave away about 70% of his wealth.
So to determine X, we can just ask how much money he’d have now had he not given any away, and it looks like he has about 70% less than that.
You confidently gave an explanation earlier that was hogwash.
In the billionaire’s defense, he probably didn’t plan on us as a society deciding to shoveling money at his class as quickly as we possibly could.
I think accelerating that timeline is a good thing as I think he will be better than anyone who came after to direct how the funds as applied.
Appears to be more along lines of approval from others, which is a type of self-promotion if you will. IMHO a true do-gooder would go about his philanthropy/help/charity with zero publicity and would actively shun any.
Steel-manning: Gates has run a deliberate PR campaign for decades to rehabilitate his reputation. In the 80s & 90s (before the Gates Foundation) he was known as a ruthless corporate tactician who crushed competitors like ants and earned a federal antitrust suit against Microsoft. Prior to his divorce he had a widely-publicized affair with a subordinate. He befriended Jeffrey Epstein and appeared in his flight logs after Epstein had already been convicted of soliciting prostitution from a minor. (Gates has worked very hard to distance himself from Epstein since then - another example of the PR machine at work).
Someone who wants to paint the least charitable picture possible of Gates could factually describe him as a cutthroat businessman and a philanderer who associated with a pedophile on at least a few documented occasions. And that's ignoring the nuttier Gates conspiracy theories (e.g., Covid microchips).
Sure, everyone knows him. But he'd rather be known as a voracious reader who fought polio & malaria and provided drinkable water to millions. Not a bad use of his billions - what else could he spend those on that would materially affect his life?
Bit of an unfair comparison though.. Most people dont retire from a job where you're literally handing people money.
That said, I'm a huge fan Bill's work post-microsoft :)
Still the same greedy asshole though.
Alone his money and the pledge he pused is breathaking.
Why would you say he is a greedy asshole while he spends all his money to help humans?
Trump is greedy. Musk thinks probably he is good but is greedy as f and wants to go to mars because he thinks earth cant be saved anymore. But Gates?
First of, i do know his history very well, i'm quite aware that he was not a saint before but that doesn't change the fact what he is currently doing and it is very good.
Do you have anything real? Like real talking points? Real sources? aything besides just shitting at him?
> People will say a lot of things about me when I die, but I am determined that "he died rich" will not be one of them.
It's easy to forget how absurdly wealthy the very richest in society are. Say he started this initiative on his 70th birthday and he's spreading his giving fairly lineraly over the next 20 years but dies just 1 day short of his 90th birthday, he'd still have about $13,698,630 to his name. I think most would consider someone with that money to their name rich.
Arguably he's already done so much for billions of people. Had typing on computers not became the main way businesses communicate , anyone with bad, handwriting would be stuck in menial work.
When I was growing up in the 90s my hand writing was so bad it was assumed I would never amount to anything.
Then computers completely take over all aspects of business in the early 2000s. No one is writing TPS reports by hand.
All of a sudden my horrible handwriting doesn't matter. It's still really bad. But I've made 6 figures for well over a decade, along with an amazing year at about 200k.
None of this would of been possible without Gates. I also owe the creator of Android Andy Rubin. It's been a while ( and it might of been one of the other co founders), but I was able to thank Rubin. His response was something like "Well, we still need to get building applications working on Android."
I've also been able to thank( on this forum) Brendan Eich, the inventor of my first programming language, JavaScript. Amazingly humble for someone who helped create trillions in wealth.
Apart of me thinks Gates could still lead some innovation in computing. I hope somehow he's still coding under a pseudonym perhaps, and occasionally answering tech questions.
His gift to us has been this amazing industry.