A good removalist will come and quote and figure it all out. They'll discuss what you need to do to protect things and who will do it. You pay on delivery so at least there is the option to not pay.
Any company that subcontracts as a surprise is shit. My MO now is if I get a surprise subby for any job, from coding to paving to moving I am going to tell them to fuck off. It ain't a good sign.
stavros · 48m ago
Alas, from TFA:
> I had to have everything out that day, so there wasn’t any choice
massysett · 14m ago
The title of the HN post is incorrect; Flat Rate Movers is a proper name.
sethammons · 1h ago
My movers took our pre-packed boxes, loaded them up, and were to meet us three days later six states over, in Montana. We couldn't use PODs because they wouldn't deliver to anything closer than about 90 minutes away.
Dumb us. Should have done that. It took the company two months to finally deliver our possessions. They filed bankruptcy during the situation and lost the truck for a while and we were about to have to go through the courts when they finally found some guy with a bad neck to drive and nobody to unload. They wrote our names with permanent marker on some things, broke others, a few boxes were never seen again. But the damage was within some contract provision I missed that said something about up to $1k to be submitted to them for coverage which half they denied.
Subcontractor movers. One of the worst "professional" experiences of my life.
londons_explore · 10h ago
This is exactly what small claims is designed for.
You write the claim, give the evidence, and if they don't show up, you win by default and can hand the judgement to the insurance company to get paid.
teeray · 9h ago
But if they do show up and know how to play the game, buckle up. You’ll be in and out of there for years. The judge will ask you to settle for a fraction of what you’re owed. When you finally do get the judgement, they won’t pay it. Then you need to drag them back to court to get them on a time-payment plan… then they make a few payments, stop paying and move to another state. Then you need to domesticate your judgement in that state, and maybe you can start to think about garnishing wages or drafting from accounts of theirs. By then, you’ve wasted so much time and money, you’re doing it mostly for spite at this point.
Ferret7446 · 7h ago
I don't think this applies for small claims? Small claims are a single court session after which a judgement is delivered, though collection is still your problem. Of course, the threshold for small claims is fairly low.
dennis_jeeves2 · 1h ago
>though collection is still your problem
You state this as some simple issue, Often they will not pay.
icelancer · 6h ago
When they don't pay the judgment, where do you think you end back up?
gnopgnip · 4h ago
You take the judgement to the sheriff and they seize their money from the bank
lurk2 · 5h ago
You can seize control of physical assets if they fail to pay you.
danielheath · 5h ago
... by going back to court, and getting the court to order the police to do so.
Which is fine unless they know the system and how to play it - eg by telling the magistrate the second time around that they've made partial payment & have more coming, just need some time, etc.
lurk2 · 4h ago
> Which is fine unless they know the system and how to play it - eg by telling the magistrate the second time around that they've made partial payment & have more coming, just need some time, etc.
Are you speaking from past experience? This is something I hear repeated on Hacker News all the time but I’ve never seen evidence that it’s particularly common.
borski · 1h ago
> I’ve never seen evidence that it’s particularly common
Because it isn't, for small claims court. Does it happen? Absolutely. But it's rare.
It's much more common outside small claims, where the stakes are higher.
lurk2 · 5h ago
Are you speaking from experience?
Der_Einzige · 5h ago
Frame them as a “suppressive person” and get the Scientologists going after them. They’ll end up shot in a ditch somewhere and you’ll get the money from their estate. /s
Small claims courts typically have fairly low limits, much lower than what the insurance might pay for damages to a house or furniture and art (as described in the write up).
You might get the cost of the move restored, but that doesn't cover the cost of repairs, replacements, and restoration.
kevincox · 9h ago
In this specific case it does seem that the insurance company paid for the damages to property, so recovering some or all of the moving costs would be exactly what is needed.
486sx33 · 9h ago
Many jurisdictions have doubled their small claims max in the past decade. It’s worth looking into.
bookofjoe · 8h ago
"I was only ruined but twice in my life — once when I lost a lawsuit and when I won one."
— Voltaire
akerl_ · 7h ago
It's not clear to me that a default judgement in a civil case against a moving company would be something their shipping insurer would pay out.
As is demonstrated in this blog post, the insurer paid out directly on a claim of damages, no civil court required. But above & beyond that, to recoup costs paid for the move based on a dispute about the service rendered, my understanding is that you'd end up with a judgement against the moving company and the same struggles chasing them down as you already had.
Jtsummers · 10h ago
Issues like this are why I used PODS for my last move. Hire a local packing and unpacking crew at each end yourself, it's a lot less expensive and you get more control but assume more responsibility. Alternatively a rental truck, but you can still hire local crews for the labor.
hx8 · 7h ago
I moved a lot.
* If there is something of high value, either handle it yourself separate of the movers, or package it yourself if it's too large. Make sure it's adequately insured and take photos.
* If it's a one day job, hiring a crew with a truck is fine. Keep an eye on the crew and the truck throughout the process.
* If it's a longer job, you can rent one or two trucks and hire a crew to load and another to unload at the destination. If everything is boxed, and you have good access to the front door, then a crew of 3 or 4 should be able to fill a large truck in 2 or 3 hours. Unloading goes quicker.
* I've always regretted using PODS. They are small, and I tend to keep them in the driveway way longer than you should. With a truck rental the time urgency helps me complete the project faster.
rattray · 6h ago
Any tips on hiring movers?
andy99 · 3h ago
We moved recently, and admittedly lucked out getting a good mover, but the main difference that made me pick the one we did was that they were going to use their own truck and crew. We only talked to 2 companies, and the other one, despite owning their own trucks, for an out of town move was going to subcontract to someone, under which circumstances all bets are off as happened to the OP.
When I moved I just assumed there would be problems with the movers because it seems like that kind of industry. Turns out we got a great crew, no tricks or gimmicks, and no damage to anything. It actually felt weird seeing how "normal" something like that could be, when you almost expect something like what the OP got.
hx8 · 6h ago
Unless it's a 1bedroom apartment don't accept less than 3 guys. Anything heavy really benefits from multiple people. Get three quotes for the job, talking to someone on the phone for each quote. Ask questions during the phone call. Ask about the company and the service they provide, treat it like a short interview. Select the company that sounds the most professional, unless their price is exorbitant compared to the other two.
When the crew arrives, let the leader of the crew know you'll tip cash for good service.
Mbwagava · 6h ago
Letting them know you'll tip cash is the best advice here. The movers will treat your stuff better and stuff won't go missing (although I have no reason to think this is specifically a concern, I do understand the paranoia).
btilly · 6h ago
When my wife and I moved, we packed up the house over several weeks, decided what went, and what would be left.
We then rented the U-Haul recommended for a 3 bedroom apartment, picked two random Mexican volunteers, and paid them more than they asked for, for a very long day. It worked well.
But this did require having been well-organized before they came, having already found fragile stuff, and having our plan for how to protect those things.
fooker · 1h ago
> over several weeks
This is the reason people go with movers. A professional crew will do this in a morning.
abruzzi · 8h ago
Just still be cautious and carry some insurance on your stuff. My brother broke up with his girlfriend, she moved back east. She packed all her stuff up in a PODS and shipped it home, and the pod dissappeared. PODS completely lost it.
thephyber · 7h ago
Curious if an AirTag (or similar BTLE device on a mesh network) could mitigate some of this risk…
ajb · 3h ago
If this is a metal box like a shipping container, you'd have to attaching it to the outside somehow. However the website just says "steel framed" which suggests the sides might not be metal, in which case it might work.
However it's quite possible that something else happened to it that they don't want to admit. Like maybe their driver was DUI and crashed it.
gautamcgoel · 6h ago
That's crazy! How does something so big go missing? Did they ever find it?
rootsudo · 10h ago
Today I learned there is a national database (for now) so you can bypass and file appropriately. That is nice. I’m happy op got somewhat whole again.
But that sucks, luckily I’ve been able to just do U-Haul solo but lately (also facing a move) man - it is tiresome the older you get.
nunez · 5h ago
Agreed.
My wife and I did a move ourselves once. Never again. Movers ever time.
SoftTalker · 10h ago
Honestly the best way to move is to sell or donate everything and buy new for your new place. Get down to suitcases or stuff you can pack and ship via UPS.
Yeah some stuff has sentimental value but try to get past that as much as you can. It’s just stuff.
When my uncle moved when he retired he took what would fit in his car. I have never gotten that lean but I admire him for it.
the__alchemist · 10h ago
This is very situational. Many people have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of items, especially furniture.
B-Con · 9h ago
For me it isn't about the cost as much as it is that I've tailored my possessions to be what I like. If I have it, it brings value, and I probably like the details enough that it's hard to replace without getting an exact replica.
SoftTalker · 10h ago
He paid $14k for the movers. That would buy a fair bit of new furniture unless it’s really high end.
brandall10 · 8h ago
That’s a fairly significant amount of furniture.
Unless you’re buying mid-grade or lower IKEA or purchasing used, you’ll almost always come out behind by selling and repurchasing.
Glyptodon · 3h ago
$14k is like one smaller piece of high end furniture.
That said, it might cover two or three rooms of carefully budgeted non-crap furniture. Or like five of lucky thrift store finds.
normie3000 · 2h ago
Fascinating perspective! I don't think anything in my house cost over $500, including beds, couch, TV and appliances. What item can you get for $14k?
V99 · 2h ago
Here's a couch from a retail store you've probably heard of that you can configure online for $12k.
Personally I'd rather buy one from IKEA and use the change left over from $12k to buy.. a used truck to drive the sofa home in.. but apparently there's a market.
You can certainly go much higher for smaller companies producing actual custom stuff, using exotic materials, for a giant sectional instead of a single sofa, etc.
normie3000 · 51m ago
Thanks! I haven't heard of that store, and their website seems to be geoblocked in my region.
the__alchemist · 10h ago
I see many scenarios where the items would add up to less than this. I see more where it doesn't. e.g.: What you say makes sense for a single person who owns a PC, a TV, and Ikea + amazon furniture.
Now imagine a couple or family, who's been (criticize the capitalist/consumer culture or not) buying nice wood furniture, has a well-stocked kitchen, multiple computers, hobby equipment etc.
I encourage you to run a rough estimate of your own household's items. Do the same for your a neighbor's; a friend's.
throwaway173738 · 9h ago
My nice wood furniture has had three owners and is almost 70 years old, so I certainly think it’s possible to own nice things and not be a wasteful consumerist.
RHSeeger · 6h ago
I built my living room coffee table by hand with my father, who is now dead. I built my shop table by hand (to match the one my father had). Even ignoring the 10s of thousand of dollars it would cost me to refurnish a house to match what I have now (and the staggering amount of time finding suitable replacements), there just a ton of things I could never replace.
jghn · 8h ago
> He paid $14k for the movers. That would buy a fair bit of new furniture unless it’s really high end.
Not really? Furniture is expensive. Once you move out of the garbage tier, that's not a whole lot of stuff.
RHSeeger · 6h ago
Heck, even at the low end of not-garbage, a couch runs in the $1k range. Something from Bobs Furniture Outlet, for example.
Note, I love Bob's furniture. I have a couch from there I bought 10 years ago and it's absolutely the most comfortable couch I've ever had. My comment that they're low end is not, in any way, to insult the quality of what they have. Rather, they're not expensive (the same couch at a slightly more "name brand" place would have been twice the cost; for no increase in quality).
sandworm101 · 10h ago
14k? I know people who own more than 14k worth of fishing equipment ... not including any sort of boat. A family of four with any sort of hobby, say four sets of skis/boots/poles, will easily hit 14k on that hobby alone. I don't want to think about how much all my climbing gear would cost to replace.
Packing up everything into suitcases is all well and good for single IT workers moving between generic white-walled apartments. People with kids and hobbies have stuff that takes up space.
what · 9h ago
>climbing gear
How much does a harness, shoes and some rope cost?
margalabargala · 9h ago
Well, you also need quickdraws and anchor gear if lead climbing outdoors, and this doesn't remotely start to touch on trad gear, but you can set yourself up nicely for climbing for about $500.
The person you replied to does not have anywhere near $14k of climbing gear unless they are into serious big-wall climbing that involves sleeping on the side of the wall, or else they run a rock climbing guide company.
Edit: Just saw they actually listed their kit out in another comment, which tracks closely with what I expected. They could probably replace all of it for under $5k.
kristjansson · 9h ago
Respectfully, consider that other people are actual people, and their lives are meaningfully distinct from yours. To wit, “climbing equipment” encompasses everything from the backpack of gym-climbing gear you describe to a half-ton of tents, rope, crashpads, anchors, packs, portaledges, outerwear, camp gear, etc.
aw1621107 · 9h ago
On the order of a few hundred per at most, but if you're climbing outdoors you probably will need a lot more than just those. Trad gear in particular can add up quite quickly.
In addition, it's not uncommon for dedicated climbers to have multiple sets of ropes/shoes (and even harnesses) for different situations.
ChrisMarshallNY · 9h ago
That depends on whether or not you can fly.
When I took climbing, as a teenager, our instructor was very serious about getting the best stuff: shoes, ropes, crampons, carabiners, gloves, jackets, etc.
Not cheap, but he put it as “do you want to die?”.
Same with diving gear.
margalabargala · 9h ago
Crampons are not remotely close to standard rock climbing gear. Mountaineering yes, climbing no.
ChrisMarshallNY · 8h ago
Been a long time, so I’m likely misremembering. I also did a great deal of camping and hiking, with similar admonitions.
Fruits of a … colorful … childhood. I was sent to a number of “diversionary” curricula.
ghaff · 7h ago
Crampons are definitely mountaineering/winter hiking gear which I used to do a fair bit of. (For lower-grade winter hiking, various silicon spikes plus single-layer boots are pretty popular even among relative serious hikers up to some level.) Not rock climbing, which I always sort of hated :-)
But, yeah, even a decent collection of 4-season hiking/backpacking/camping gear--even if you exclude the previous gen stuff you don't really use any longer can easily get into the thousands of dollars though people do scrape by with consignment and the like.
But, by the way, that's one of the issues. In the natural course of things, you can pick up relative bargains over time, If you're presented with "repopulate your house in the next few weeks" not so much.
In fact, I'm presented with the latter in the next month or so. Will have to rebuy a bunch of kitchen stuff in particular fairly quickly and I'll probably just place some big orders with Amazon, Sur La Table, and a handful of other companies without doing much in the way of careful shopping other than pulling from various lists.
blackguardx · 8h ago
Figure $3k or so for a complete set of gear to get you up almost anything in the continental US. Of course you can buy more or less depending on your goals.
A full set of say a dozen cams, probably $1000. A set of tricams ($100). A couple sets of good nuts (2x$150). A set of hexes ($150). About a hundred oval crabs (100x$15) and a few beefy lockers (6x50$). Say 24ish quickdraws (24x$30). A half dozen belay devices/eights for various tasks (6x30$). Ropes are about 200 each for 50-60m dynamics. Any serious climber will own four or more. Plus some static lines for hauling. A set of jummars (2x150$). Lots of webbing for connecting stuff. A few thinner ropes for anchors and general utility uses. A couple pulley blocks (2x100). Rope bags. Gear bags. Cleaning tools. And a hundred other bits and bobs. Every wall climber also has an assortment of strange stuff, things few people ever see two of, for particular problems. For instance I have an ascender rated to catch falls, which is a useful self-rescue device. Such rare things are priceless.
That's just the technical climbing gear for climbing rock. There is also all the camping stuff used when getting to or staying near the rock.
Then there is the box of aid climbing / bolting stuff. And the first aid stuff.
necubi · 8h ago
Uh… who is buying tricams and hexes these days? 100 carabiners??
sandworm101 · 7h ago
Tricams are still sold. They are great in horizontal or shallow cracks. They are also way cheaper than mechanical cams. Hexes are still sold under different names (DMM Torque-nuts are just small hexes imho.)
100 seems like way too many, but things add up fast. Each piece of pro will need one or two. A basic trad anchor setup (three bit of pro) will involve five carabiners (3x plus two to tie off, and maybe a sixth if you want to top-rope the belay). So if you have a long pitch with say 15 bit of pro, and an anchor on either end, you are easily talking about 30+ carabiners in use on a single pitch. But you won't use every bit of pro on every pitch. You will have maybe a dozen other bits hanging off of you. That's another 20+ carabiners. So, on a single not-complicated trad route (no bolts) 50+ carabiners is not unusual. Get into complex things like multiple ropes and owning 100+ is not unusual.
Now having them all be ovals is strange. I took a stance early on that I wanted to standardize as much as possible. I bought BD ovals in bulk over a few years in the early 2000s. I like them, at least for everything other than quickdraw ends, rather than the random assortment many climbers end up collecting bit by bit.
They’re a collector and I bet they never use 90% of the stuff they bought. Even more reason to purge it on a move.
what · 8h ago
That’s not anywhere near 14k.
kristjansson · 8h ago
It’s a fair fraction, on one hobby’s worth of stuff, nevermind the rest of the household (member’s!) items.
$14k just doesn’t cover replacing a household’s worth of stuff. If you still think it does, do a replacement value inventory of your place. And then update your insurance!
deadbabe · 10h ago
2 pieces of good (not ikea crap quality which you don't want to move around anyway) furniture would easily cost $14k.
zeroonetwothree · 5h ago
I have an IKEA desk I’ve moved eight times and it’s still going great after 20 years. I think it’s the oldest thing I own actually.
what · 9h ago
You can buy high quality furniture for way less than that. You’re just paying for a brand that no one will even notice.
throwaway173738 · 9h ago
Or real maple and oak instead of veneer. Which can be reupholstered and sanded and refinished periodically as the piece ages.
Glyptodon · 3h ago
It's hard to say w/o knowing what, but even getting a couple reasonably priced and finished Amish pieces for something could easily add up to half that. But if you're talking something like a large and well made leather sofa-recliner-sectional type thing it's plausible that it could add up to that much for one piece depending on size, construction, and leather.
iamacyborg · 3h ago
High quality means different things to different people.
Plenty of folks will notice the brand, because they produce iconic designs.
Der_Einzige · 10h ago
As someone who just bought some of the literally highest end furniture money can buy (Hancock and Moore), 12,000$ got me 3 pieces (couch, loveseat, recliner).
You got ripped off if you paid 14K for 2 pieces.
kristjansson · 8h ago
> highest end furniture money can buy
I’m sure they’re wonderful, and congratulations on the new acquisition! But you must know that’s a nonsensical statement. Above a certain level of sufficiency for purpose, it’s all a matter of taste. And like all matters of taste, the price can expand to absorb almost any budget
ghaff · 5h ago
>it’s all a matter of taste
And priorities. I spent a lot on a dining room table but recently decided I'd buy an all-wood with more assembly replacement bed rather a really expensive hand-crafted platform. Can probably just have my contractors assemble and I'll still come out way ahead.
Der_Einzige · 4h ago
If you do furniture research seriously, you learn that the difference between Hancock and Moore or similar brands and like crate and barrel is enormous. Go search for Hancock and Moore furniture at your local estate sale and notice that no one will let it go for less than like 50% of its original cost even despite significant usage. This is because those in the know realize that it’s the top quality product.
It’s like boots - whites boots or Thurgood are objectively superior to almost everything else in terms of price to performance ratio. Most don’t buy them because they buy into Nikes bullshit propaganda. Product differentiation based on quality is the single most important aspect of price - even if companies do everything they can to obscure quality discovery.
When you care about the following (google these, they are the marks of quality in the furniture world), paying a pretty penny is worth it.
Kiln-Dried Hardwood, Corner-Blocked, Double-Doweled Joinery, Eight-Way Hand-Tied Sinuous Springs, real full-grain leather (Aniline or Semi-aniline Dyed)
Glyptodon · 3h ago
I haven't purchased, but a furniture store near me had a leather "Chateau Chair" of their's marked down from like $6k to $3000-something so it's hard for me to imagine the $12k for 3 larger pieces, though maybe it's a question of leather or non or something.
wyclif · 7h ago
It is very situational—I get that. But the fact of the matter is that most people have way too much stuff. This creates a huge amount of problems and headaches if you have to move.
ghaff · 7h ago
Most of us here can probably agree that moving is a very good time to assess a lot of property. Much of which you probably were given/acquired at some time or another and really don't use.
I had a fairy minor (in the scheme of things) kitchen fire earlier this year. (Not my fault. Microwave burst into flames in the middle of the night.) Most of the contents are probably salvageable (or determined best replaced under replacement policy).
But I intend to be fairly discriminating as I move stuff back into the house. I had already started doing some sorting and donating/chucking bu this will accelerate it.
kristjansson · 7h ago
At some life stages and situations, this makes total sense. I’d think those are predominantly when one is embarking on a new stage, and moving as a part of that. Graduations, retirement, marriage, divorce, … . But someone moving involuntarily (job change, new posting, …), perhaps with a partner, perhaps with children … it’s hard to begrudge that person bringing many of their things along to ease the transition.
There’s a reason the US military pays for movers.
pclmulqdq · 8h ago
Yes, next time I move I will sell or donate my $100,000 piano and simply buy a new one in the new place.
zeroonetwothree · 5h ago
Or just don’t have one? Most people don’t own $100,000 pianos and somehow they make do.
codedokode · 2h ago
I am sure most people wouldn't refuse to have a $100 000 piano if they had space for it.
glitchcrab · 3h ago
But they do have one, so your point is moot.
iamacyborg · 3h ago
What a weird take.
Der_Einzige · 5h ago
A guy near me literally gave away a Steinway piano. Like, a real one worth at least 8K (verified it online).
Me being too slow to get it is one of my great regrets in life.
Glyptodon · 4h ago
If someone gave me replacement value for my stuff I would not have an issue with this. But realistically nobody is going to give $50k+ to replace all your furniture, electronics, dishes, tools, and so forth. And it only really adds up if you either (a) are wealthy enough that it's not a meaningful cost, or (b) barely have anything in the way of furniture and tools. It's also complicated by things like decently made shelves that aren't wildly expensive being much harder to find than 20 years ago. Like if I could get equivalent shelves adjusted for inflation donating and replacing them would be fine. But I literally can't - I can only find cheap crap or rather expensive stuff that's moderately nicer than my old stuff.
nunez · 5h ago
This works when you have cheap and/or limited furniture.
Better/more expensive furniture is difficult to sell but also valuable enough to keep.
ghaff · 5h ago
Selling stuff, especially if you're well outside of a major city, is sort of tough. Yard sales don't really bring in the cash and take some work. Most people probably don't want the stuff you don't want and even selling that takes effort.
barbazoo · 9h ago
That sounds super wasteful.
TuringNYC · 8h ago
>> Honestly the best way to move is to sell or donate everything and buy new for your new place.
One problem is the delays on new furniture. I saw delays of 6-14 weeks on furniture when I last moved. I purchased a kitchen island from Ashley Furniture in 2021 which has still not fully arrived (the side-pieces are still pending in 2025) even though payments started as soon as the first item was shipped.
Also, you may find that furniture prices in 2025 are not what they were when you last moved given inflation.
subscribed · 8h ago
I ordered by new sofa in February. I expect it in May.
It's just stuff you can or can't get. How would I know I can't get sofa?
How much does assembling the furniture take? Do I book someone to help me with that or so I just pay for assembly?
How much is the new mattress and why waste the old one, expensive and now destined to the skip?
How much is going to cost me the living room equipment? Not much, two gaming consoles, TV, 7+2 setup with a decent, 8k, flexible AVR.
Do I take the hit on buying the new motorcycle? Old, perfectly fine but a bit beaten bicycles will have to be thrown out as they look quite nasty (even though they ride well, in my currently 5th house), so it's a few grand on bicycles as well.
Do I need to throw out my network equipment as well? I mean, I could probably sell it on ebay for a fraction of the value and buy new for 20 times what I'll get from my old one, then just get through the pain of setting new software anew...
Etc, etc. I'm glad it works for you but it's laughable to offer your solution as a "best way to love" to everyone without knowing their circumstances.
neom · 7h ago
I'm my 40s over here and in my life I've owned 3 full houses of...stuff, so much stuff, really nice stuff!!! Now I own almost nothing and life is much easier. I find the comments here really funny, now I am free I realize how trapped I was by my trappings, your uncle was a smart guy.
southernplaces7 · 6h ago
>Honestly the best way to move is to sell or donate everything and buy new for your new place. Get down to suitcases or stuff you can pack and ship via UPS
The best way? Really? Perhaps if you're comfortable enough financially in a way that most people in the U.S, or even more so, the rest of the world are not.
I mean, how wonderful if you have the discretionary budget to simply sell at a typical major discount or donate away most of your major physical possessions and just buy everything new. For many, many, if not most people, attempting such a thing would be a huge economic blow in addition to the already often heavy costs of moving.
If some of the advice and observations often given on this site seem like naval-gazing, bubble-dwelling nonsense, it's due to laughable comments like this one.
idiotsecant · 8h ago
Yes. It's a cliche but it's true. Your stuff owns you.
Der_Einzige · 9h ago
You're triggering folks here because you're right. Many people would find that significant amounts of downsizing before moves would be cheaper than the insane costs of most moving companies.
Glyptodon · 3h ago
It's interesting - I've only got about 5 pieces of furniture I'd feel an super strong desire to move with. But I also don't think anybody is going to give me a furniture stipend to replace the furniture I do characterize as totally and easily substitutable.
autoexec · 9h ago
It'd be a huge gamble. Many things can't be replaced. Mostly you'll be forced to get "similar" things. Different manufactures. Different model numbers. Enshittification means that you'll often be stuck with something much worse than what you had.
With prices about to skyrocket and shelves about to be empty thanks to tariffs, mismanagement of the economy, and pissing off the people we depend on for nearly everything we have you'd have to be crazy to throw out everything you have and assume you'll save money buying new replacements for everything you lost.
subscribed · 8h ago
They are NOT suggesting downsizing, entirely sensible practice.
They say to sell everything except what can fit in one briefcase, and to buy all that stuff new in the new place.
Super time consuming and expensive.
I don't want someone's used bed or used sofa, so I'll have to buy new.
Almost everything depreciates with time, so you're looking at a house of the good, usable stuff that can be sold or donated for a fraction of the price over the course of weeks (in the meanwhile you can wash your family clothes in the river and eat out), and then spend weeks buying brand new stuff (I'm not sure if either of you knows how much the household equipment costs).
You're both likely talking from the perspective of the single małe loving in the small furnished flat and moving to another furnished flat. In that one edge case selling everything and buying new may work.
(just don't move the goalposts: you're effectively discussing with the stance no one took, because no one was arguing downsizing)
Dylan16807 · 4h ago
> They say to sell everything except what can fit in one briefcase
They said "suitcases" and stuff you can ship. Not one briefcase.
You're effectively discussing with the stance no one took.
Der_Einzige · 4h ago
Assumptions make an ass out of you.
I’m married, live in a big house, and I’m fine with “goal posts moving” to my own argument.
With the exception of giant high quality furniture I now have, getting rid of 80-90 percent of my shit would be economically superior to paying insane costs on movers. My wife won’t agree though because women hate minimalism they are obsessed with trinkets, do-dads, and Knick-knacks. (see women’s reactions to young men living with only TV and couch meme on the internet)
By combining moves with two or three others, you can get cross country moving costs on 3 couches and misc stuff to be in the 2-4K range. I know this because I paid that on my latest cross country move when I had about that much stuff last time.
hengheng · 17m ago
> women hate minimalism
Please grant people their individual identity beyond "you belong to the class of women and thus I will treat you as such".
Not going to tell you how to look at your wife, but random people you meet likely deserve more grace than you give them.
iamacyborg · 3h ago
> My wife won’t agree though because women hate minimalism they are obsessed with trinkets, do-dads, and Knick-knacks. (see women’s reactions to young men living with only TV and couch meme on the internet)
That’s not minimalism, it’s being a slob. Minimalism implies thought and precision, which is pretty much the opposite of the posts you’re referring to
declan_roberts · 9h ago
This sucks and I feel really sorry for OP. Every once in a while you stumble into a relationship with the company like this and you feel so impotent as to preventing others from falling into the same trap.
Good on OP for not giving up and for going after insurance over and over.
mud_dauber · 9h ago
Boy, if robotics could learn how to bubble wrap, tape, box and stack both hard and soft items… They could hitch a ride on the back of a panel truck. Somewhat similar to forklifts on the tails of Home Depot delivery trucks.
autoexec · 9h ago
Those robot movers would be recording every item in your home, evaluating the age and condition of those items, logging every member of your family, mapping out the floor plans of your old and new home, and streaming that data back to the moving company who would sell it to data brokers.
vemom · 5h ago
They'd racially profile you too, and maybe ICE will arrive and deport you. You won't get any 4th amendment, show me the body or similar "magna carta" protections, or even Miranda.
selimthegrim · 3h ago
Why do I feel like this was a Ray Bradbury story?
Scene_Cast2 · 8h ago
I'd love there to be a catalog of all the stuff in my home that I could organize, or easily put up on eBay. The biggest hurdle of selling something, for me, is the work of photographing and uploading the photos. A one-click "sell this" would be amazing.
autoexec · 8h ago
With all the surveillance we live under, pretty much none of it benefits you in any way. I'd love to have access to all the data that's collected about me by the state and by corporations (including the inferences and assumptions they make by evaluating that data). I'd never need to keep a journal. They don't want to give you that data. They'd rather you don't think about it at all.
soupfordummies · 7h ago
They’d rather you don’t KNOW about it at all. I think a good percentage of people that are outside of our tech bubble have no idea how deep that rabbit hole goes.
esperent · 8h ago
> I'd love there to be a catalog of all the stuff
Oh no, you wouldn't have access to that data. It belongs to the robot mover company, not you.
scarmig · 8h ago
Inevitably, companies would arise that don't sell your data, and charge a higher fee to compensate the loss in revenue. Then, they'd go out of business as customers decide they prefer to sell all their data for a couple extra bucks.
andrewflnr · 8h ago
What actually seems to happen is that the expensive company gains customers on the premise of privacy, then eventually succumbs to the temptation to start selling some data anyway.
hx8 · 7h ago
If only we had a comprehensive set of data privacy laws that allowed users to request their data be deleted and limited what companies can do with people's data.
autoexec · 8h ago
> Inevitably, companies would arise that don't sell your data, and charge a higher fee to compensate the loss in revenue.
I've been waiting for that to happen in just about every product category I have ever used since the rise of surveillance capitalism and it hasn't yet. It's a fantasy.
Companies will always make more money by charging you as much as you're willing to pay and then also selling your data and/or using it against you for the rest of your life. No company is going to leave that endless flow of money on the table and settle for charging you a slightly higher amount one time. The shareholders won't tolerate that.
sgustard · 4h ago
Human movers have phones, they could be making some extra bucks doing this now?
akerl_ · 8h ago
Does that harm me or my stuff? Because smashed furniture and banged up walls suck.
autoexec · 8h ago
That data would absolutely be used to harm you eventually. It'd likely haunt you for the rest of your life.
The most innocent use of that data would result in you getting endless spam from the manufacturers of every item in your home letting you know about the latest model you should upgrade to, along with spam from every competitor telling you why their product should replace what you have. Companies you've never even heard of would suggest you buy their stuff just because you happen to have something in your home that is somewhat similar to something they offer.
Maybe the IRS gets their hands on that data and starts wondering how it is you've managed to afford what you have? Maybe you divorce and your ex's attorney uses that data against you because you forgot to list an asset or to demonstrate that you should have to pay more in alimony, or to paint you as being less fit for custody of your children. Maybe you have something in your home that matches something that was used in a crime and you become a suspect when you wouldn't have otherwise.
Maybe you have things in your home that others would find offensive and activists and extremists target you because of something you have. Scammers and thieves will use that data to target you more effectively. Physiological profiles will be updated based on what you own and how well you maintain your possessions. How sentimental are you? How much do brands and trends matter to you? What do your items say about your values? Those insights will be used by people looking to manipulate you and your views.
It could impact the prices you pay when you buy things, factor into whether or not you get employed at a job you want, and it wouldn't just be happening to you either, but to everyone else in your household including your children.
There's basically zero chance of that data helping you in any way and lots of ways it could end up being used against you without you even being aware of the cause. Your health insurance company isn't going to tell you that they raised your rates because the sporting equipment you kept in your garage made it look to an algorithm like you're more likely to get injured. You just see the higher bill. Everyone who gets their hands on that data will try to use in any and every way that they can to benefit themselves and that will usually be at your expense.
Dylan16807 · 4h ago
> There's basically zero chance of that data helping you in any way
Except with the moving damage risk, which is very significant.
The harms you're listing probably add up to less than a hundred dollars, if we're looking at the realistic risk.
akerl_ · 8h ago
That's a lot of maybes. I think I'd take the trade, the same way I pay for Netflix even though it means they know what I'm watching, or sign up for the store card at the grocery store even though it means they know what I'm eating.
I'm willing to trade information about myself for goods and services.
autoexec · 7h ago
There's no way to do anything in today's society without being surveilled and the data being collected never goes away. We all make choices on how much to we're okay with handing over knowing that it will all be used against us later. I'll leave the robots to you and just hire a few young men to do the job. I'll sleep better knowing that at least in this case, I won't face negative repercussions for the rest of my life as a result.
vemom · 5h ago
Yes absolutely. By the loss of the founding principles and freedoms of your country using technology as an end run.
NegativeK · 8h ago
I don't think I'm alone in viewing it as theft of your personal data.
Telemakhos · 8h ago
Rereading the post in question, I'm not so sure that I'd be afraid of "theft of my personal data" so much as "a plan for theft of my personal possessions." A map of my house with an inventory of my possessions would mean a lot to thieves who wanted to hit targets quickly and optimize their spree for a value-to-weight ratio. That kind of data could make organized burglary very profitable.
akerl_ · 8h ago
The overlap of "the entities that carry out data breaches on digital entities" and "the people who break into your house to steal stuff" is not really well correlated. This is for a variety of reasons, but the most boring is that hacking websites is way smoother when you're a faceless entity far from any kind of jurisdiction, and breaking into somebody's house is something you need boots-on-ground for.
autoexec · 7h ago
Scammers and thieves are using data brokers more and more all the time. They already buy up lists of rich elderly people, lists of people with dementia, and lists of people with low IQs or poor educations who are often easier to trick out of their cash.
Most criminals breaking into houses aren't buying up targeted lists of likely victims from data brokers yet, but it's effective so you should expect that the number of criminals turning to those resources will only increase.
akerl_ · 8h ago
Is it theft? Do I stop having my data after they’re gone?
pilingual · 9h ago
They should report it to the New York Attorney General's office, especially with damning evidence like the insurance company being refused contact.
Also the author links to the moving company's website but the anchor doesn't have the rel="nofollow" attribute.
TuringNYC · 8h ago
>> They should report it to the New York Attorney General's office, especially with damning evidence like the insurance company being refused contact.
Does this work outside high-profile cases? A condo I lived in faced dozens of serious offenses from the builder (e.g., live electrical wires left dangling open in living areas during a construction dispute.) The lawyers filed complaints with the NY AG but were told it mostly adds to some aggregate and real action is taken when the aggregate is huge. Also, we were told that most AG attention is focused on Manhattan and not the outer-boroughs.
pilingual · 8h ago
If they have clear evidence with contract, email with company, email with insurance, then it may be worth it to try submitting the evidence to the AG. The AG may write a letter and the company may ignore it, but if other people are in the same situation and the AG's office hears about it they may take more serious action.
Was the builder in the middle of renovating and there was some contract dispute? Legal issues are always nuanced and construction can easily have misunderstandings. With builders I'd have either a good construction attorney draft a contract or just hire a reputable builder. (Matt Risinger, for example, won't deal with custom legal contracts, so you generally will have to choose one or the other. I'd go with a reputable builder and one that doesn't want to tarnish that reputation.)
sandworm101 · 10h ago
>> Flat Rate called to tell me a five-person team would arrive. When the crew arrived, it wasn’t Flat Rate. It was a team of two from Esquire Moving Inc
Yup. 1988 "Moving" staring Richard Pryor had a scene about exactly this. Freedom of contract. Whoever you think you have a contact with will no doubt sublet it to someone else.
FridayoLeary · 10h ago
this is the message i got when i clicked on the link:
>Unavailable Due to the UK Online Safety Act
The Online Safety Act imposes new compliance duties on web sites with the potential for staggering penalties. I'm concerned my blog might fall under the OSA's definition of a Part 3 regulated user-to-user service. It might also qualify as a Part 5 service which provides pornography. Unfortunately, Ofcom's guidance for small services has been exceedingly vague.
I don't have the time, money, or interest to set up highly effective age assurance on a personal blog; nor do I care to spend any more of my nights and weekends working through thousands of pages of guidance and writing up risk assessments. I'm geoblocking the UK instead; Ofcom indicates that's sufficient to comply with the law.
Geoblocking is not precise. If you are not in the UK and seeing this message, you can use Tor or a VPN service to access aphyr.com.
There's a lot of uncertainty among small sites regarding what the OSA means and how Ofcom will enforce it. If you run a web site and you're struggling to interpret the OSA guidance, you might want to reach out to Ofcom's Online Safety team at OSengagement@ofcom.org.uk.
I know it's off topic but i think it has some relevance since it shows how this poorly conceived law is actively degrading my experience online, as was predicted here on hn.
Drupon · 3h ago
Kyle is a peerless genius when it comes to his technical content about distributed systems, but he has a tendency for histrionics when it comes to this stuff.
CaliforniaKarl · 9h ago
Are you going to raise the issue with your MP?
FridayoLeary · 9h ago
No. I'm just a casual HN user and i assume few people currently in power have any interest in amending a law they only just passed. Also unfortunately there are other bills that this government is passing/wants to pass that will affect me far worse then this one, so whatever ettention i do have is directed at them.
dramm · 2h ago
I wonder how well flat rate movers is going to survive network partitions, clock skews, and quorum failures.
anovikov · 2h ago
How much one needs to make to justify the shocking $14K moving bill? I made north of $1M last year and never in my fucking sane mind i'd pay nearly as much! Worst case, it's a matter of renting a truck and moving things oneself maybe hiring asking some neighbour to help loading and unloading, and offering him a drink after. Because you probably won't pack as densely as pro movers will, and you can do packaging as good, do two trips instead of one.
$14K is a shock and a fucking ripoff even if it was done perfectly. How much time is needed to move otherwise? Two days, tops? One of which you spend anyway managing that move done by movers.
trial3 · 19m ago
your comment’s tone suggests you live alone. there are many sane answers to this that do not involve one’s salary at all: physical ability, distance, quantity of stuff, other demands on your time or, perhaps most of all, the time of people you are moving with.
i personally am in a place where i still drive my own U-Hauls, but can very easily imagine the value of avoiding that amount of stress being worth just writing a huge check
i also must point out the even brokest friends i’ve helped move at least sprung for pizza for everyone who helped
bena · 10h ago
This sounds like something that would catch me too.
Because I also wouldn’t do the leg work to vet a moving company before contracting them. Because I’ve only done the “get a U-Haul and get to it” method.
senordevnyc · 5h ago
I had a similar bad experience (not quite so bad) with Flat Rate Movers in 2015. Sad to see they’re still pulling this shit a decade later.
gosub100 · 10h ago
I don't say this to victim-blame, but for anything that costs over 5-figures it makes sense to have an attorney review it. I'm not sure if that would have prevented this catastrophe, but a lawyer might be able to jump in and help make decisions (like who to sue, or whether to turn away the subcontractors).
I recently learned that the company I work for incurred a delay on a quarter million dollar shipment of computer parts because the courier didn't know we took deliveries on the weekend (normally we don't but for $250k of stuff headed straight for production we did). I said "next time use airport to airport shipping" to cut out the courier altogether. What's another $400 on top of $250k? It's common sense to me.
the__alchemist · 10h ago
> whether to turn away the subcontractors
This was a mentioned, but subtly key point: He wasn't able to turn away the movers due to a rigid move date. (Details unspecified; it begs the question of what would have happened if the movers cancelled, or were unable to get it done in a day)
Merad · 8h ago
Yeah, something important to file away in your book of life lessons is that you should _never_ schedule a move on the day you have to be out. Not unless you're backed into a corner with no alternative. Sometimes life throws you curveballs - for example in 2020 I had purchased a house and was scheduled to move, but my mom passed away around 6 PM the day before the move. Thankfully it was just an across-town move, and I had about 10 days to play with before the lease on my condo ended, and the moving company was able to reschedule for a week later.
gosub100 · 10h ago
"wasn't able" is dubious. Of course, there are repercussions for not moving out on the date, but it's not an imperative. If the landlord had to move his stuff to the curb, or it delayed closing on a house, that causes a cascade into another transaction. The world doesn't stop, of course. If the landlord is forced to pay movers to put your stuff in storage and send the bill to the tenant, those costs can, in theory, be passed on to the moving company. The details depend on the contract, obviously.
autoexec · 8h ago
It can hurt your changes of getting your next house/apartment. Depending on where you are it might not be worth risking a bad mark on your rental history/burning bridges with a company that manages a huge number of properties.
tczMUFlmoNk · 9h ago
> but for anything that costs over 5-figures it makes sense to have an attorney review it
Can you say more about this? I've never retained an attorney, but it's a skill that I would like to have. What is this process like, to get their services for a short, bounded engagement? How do I get started finding an appropriate provider?
lunr · 8h ago
Find your state's bar association website for the speciality you're looking for. For me it was an attorney specializing in probate court.
Find 2 or 3 that are close to your home (It's nice not having to drive 30 min across town to sign or pick up documents) then give each of them a call.
Most will offer a free consultation to hear why you need their services, they offer what they can do for you, or maybe recommend a specialist.
Then they'll tell you their billable hour rate, or retainer fee* for something larger (probate court takes months) to get started.
If the price is right and you feel good about this attorney, then you're all set. Easy and worth every penny.
Reviewing contracts is probably one of those 30 or 60 min deal that might cost you $200-400 depending on their billable rate, but spending $14k on a mover, $200 is a rounding error.
upghost · 8h ago
I know this is going to sound really dumb but I've had amazing luck just calling lawyers with 5 star reviews on Google Maps.
nunez · 5h ago
Sort by recent and read a few reviews to filter out people who pay for stars
Applies to everything
OutOfHere · 10h ago
Why not sue them in court?
the__alchemist · 10h ago
That was the author's remaining option; he partially resolved it one step prior.
486sx33 · 9h ago
Well if you got paid from the insurer then , in fact no one still owes you anything. That’s how that works.
thedanbob · 8h ago
> Hanover ... did agree, on the basis of the photos, to pay a reasonable amount for the damage to cargo.
> I’m still unhappy with Flat Rate: they charged me a good deal of money for services they failed to deliver, and never paid for damage to the house.
kbutler · 9h ago
The moving company also failed to provide contracted and paid for services, as acknowledged* by a company representative. The poster is thus owed a refund from the company in addition to the insurance payment, which covered damages.
* "Their representive apologized and acknowledged that a crew of two was insufficient"..."they charged me a good deal of money for services they failed to deliver"
Any company that subcontracts as a surprise is shit. My MO now is if I get a surprise subby for any job, from coding to paving to moving I am going to tell them to fuck off. It ain't a good sign.
> I had to have everything out that day, so there wasn’t any choice
Dumb us. Should have done that. It took the company two months to finally deliver our possessions. They filed bankruptcy during the situation and lost the truck for a while and we were about to have to go through the courts when they finally found some guy with a bad neck to drive and nobody to unload. They wrote our names with permanent marker on some things, broke others, a few boxes were never seen again. But the damage was within some contract provision I missed that said something about up to $1k to be submitted to them for coverage which half they denied.
Subcontractor movers. One of the worst "professional" experiences of my life.
You write the claim, give the evidence, and if they don't show up, you win by default and can hand the judgement to the insurance company to get paid.
You state this as some simple issue, Often they will not pay.
Which is fine unless they know the system and how to play it - eg by telling the magistrate the second time around that they've made partial payment & have more coming, just need some time, etc.
Are you speaking from past experience? This is something I hear repeated on Hacker News all the time but I’ve never seen evidence that it’s particularly common.
Because it isn't, for small claims court. Does it happen? Absolutely. But it's rare.
It's much more common outside small claims, where the stakes are higher.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/R2-45
You might get the cost of the move restored, but that doesn't cover the cost of repairs, replacements, and restoration.
As is demonstrated in this blog post, the insurer paid out directly on a claim of damages, no civil court required. But above & beyond that, to recoup costs paid for the move based on a dispute about the service rendered, my understanding is that you'd end up with a judgement against the moving company and the same struggles chasing them down as you already had.
* If there is something of high value, either handle it yourself separate of the movers, or package it yourself if it's too large. Make sure it's adequately insured and take photos.
* If it's a one day job, hiring a crew with a truck is fine. Keep an eye on the crew and the truck throughout the process.
* If it's a longer job, you can rent one or two trucks and hire a crew to load and another to unload at the destination. If everything is boxed, and you have good access to the front door, then a crew of 3 or 4 should be able to fill a large truck in 2 or 3 hours. Unloading goes quicker.
* I've always regretted using PODS. They are small, and I tend to keep them in the driveway way longer than you should. With a truck rental the time urgency helps me complete the project faster.
When I moved I just assumed there would be problems with the movers because it seems like that kind of industry. Turns out we got a great crew, no tricks or gimmicks, and no damage to anything. It actually felt weird seeing how "normal" something like that could be, when you almost expect something like what the OP got.
When the crew arrives, let the leader of the crew know you'll tip cash for good service.
We then rented the U-Haul recommended for a 3 bedroom apartment, picked two random Mexican volunteers, and paid them more than they asked for, for a very long day. It worked well.
But this did require having been well-organized before they came, having already found fragile stuff, and having our plan for how to protect those things.
This is the reason people go with movers. A professional crew will do this in a morning.
However it's quite possible that something else happened to it that they don't want to admit. Like maybe their driver was DUI and crashed it.
But that sucks, luckily I’ve been able to just do U-Haul solo but lately (also facing a move) man - it is tiresome the older you get.
My wife and I did a move ourselves once. Never again. Movers ever time.
Yeah some stuff has sentimental value but try to get past that as much as you can. It’s just stuff.
When my uncle moved when he retired he took what would fit in his car. I have never gotten that lean but I admire him for it.
Unless you’re buying mid-grade or lower IKEA or purchasing used, you’ll almost always come out behind by selling and repurchasing.
That said, it might cover two or three rooms of carefully budgeted non-crap furniture. Or like five of lucky thrift store finds.
https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/bedford-sofa-uphols...
Personally I'd rather buy one from IKEA and use the change left over from $12k to buy.. a used truck to drive the sofa home in.. but apparently there's a market.
You can certainly go much higher for smaller companies producing actual custom stuff, using exotic materials, for a giant sectional instead of a single sofa, etc.
Now imagine a couple or family, who's been (criticize the capitalist/consumer culture or not) buying nice wood furniture, has a well-stocked kitchen, multiple computers, hobby equipment etc.
I encourage you to run a rough estimate of your own household's items. Do the same for your a neighbor's; a friend's.
Not really? Furniture is expensive. Once you move out of the garbage tier, that's not a whole lot of stuff.
Note, I love Bob's furniture. I have a couch from there I bought 10 years ago and it's absolutely the most comfortable couch I've ever had. My comment that they're low end is not, in any way, to insult the quality of what they have. Rather, they're not expensive (the same couch at a slightly more "name brand" place would have been twice the cost; for no increase in quality).
Packing up everything into suitcases is all well and good for single IT workers moving between generic white-walled apartments. People with kids and hobbies have stuff that takes up space.
How much does a harness, shoes and some rope cost?
The person you replied to does not have anywhere near $14k of climbing gear unless they are into serious big-wall climbing that involves sleeping on the side of the wall, or else they run a rock climbing guide company.
Edit: Just saw they actually listed their kit out in another comment, which tracks closely with what I expected. They could probably replace all of it for under $5k.
In addition, it's not uncommon for dedicated climbers to have multiple sets of ropes/shoes (and even harnesses) for different situations.
When I took climbing, as a teenager, our instructor was very serious about getting the best stuff: shoes, ropes, crampons, carabiners, gloves, jackets, etc.
Not cheap, but he put it as “do you want to die?”.
Same with diving gear.
Fruits of a … colorful … childhood. I was sent to a number of “diversionary” curricula.
But, yeah, even a decent collection of 4-season hiking/backpacking/camping gear--even if you exclude the previous gen stuff you don't really use any longer can easily get into the thousands of dollars though people do scrape by with consignment and the like.
But, by the way, that's one of the issues. In the natural course of things, you can pick up relative bargains over time, If you're presented with "repopulate your house in the next few weeks" not so much.
In fact, I'm presented with the latter in the next month or so. Will have to rebuy a bunch of kitchen stuff in particular fairly quickly and I'll probably just place some big orders with Amazon, Sur La Table, and a handful of other companies without doing much in the way of careful shopping other than pulling from various lists.
But 14k is still a lot.
A full set of say a dozen cams, probably $1000. A set of tricams ($100). A couple sets of good nuts (2x$150). A set of hexes ($150). About a hundred oval crabs (100x$15) and a few beefy lockers (6x50$). Say 24ish quickdraws (24x$30). A half dozen belay devices/eights for various tasks (6x30$). Ropes are about 200 each for 50-60m dynamics. Any serious climber will own four or more. Plus some static lines for hauling. A set of jummars (2x150$). Lots of webbing for connecting stuff. A few thinner ropes for anchors and general utility uses. A couple pulley blocks (2x100). Rope bags. Gear bags. Cleaning tools. And a hundred other bits and bobs. Every wall climber also has an assortment of strange stuff, things few people ever see two of, for particular problems. For instance I have an ascender rated to catch falls, which is a useful self-rescue device. Such rare things are priceless.
https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/nuts_museum_the...
That's just the technical climbing gear for climbing rock. There is also all the camping stuff used when getting to or staying near the rock.
Then there is the box of aid climbing / bolting stuff. And the first aid stuff.
100 seems like way too many, but things add up fast. Each piece of pro will need one or two. A basic trad anchor setup (three bit of pro) will involve five carabiners (3x plus two to tie off, and maybe a sixth if you want to top-rope the belay). So if you have a long pitch with say 15 bit of pro, and an anchor on either end, you are easily talking about 30+ carabiners in use on a single pitch. But you won't use every bit of pro on every pitch. You will have maybe a dozen other bits hanging off of you. That's another 20+ carabiners. So, on a single not-complicated trad route (no bolts) 50+ carabiners is not unusual. Get into complex things like multiple ropes and owning 100+ is not unusual.
Now having them all be ovals is strange. I took a stance early on that I wanted to standardize as much as possible. I bought BD ovals in bulk over a few years in the early 2000s. I like them, at least for everything other than quickdraw ends, rather than the random assortment many climbers end up collecting bit by bit.
Very basic trad anchor (3 bits of pro, 5 crabs) https://www.theclimbinglifeguides.com/blog/rock-climbing-anc...
$14k just doesn’t cover replacing a household’s worth of stuff. If you still think it does, do a replacement value inventory of your place. And then update your insurance!
Plenty of folks will notice the brand, because they produce iconic designs.
You got ripped off if you paid 14K for 2 pieces.
I’m sure they’re wonderful, and congratulations on the new acquisition! But you must know that’s a nonsensical statement. Above a certain level of sufficiency for purpose, it’s all a matter of taste. And like all matters of taste, the price can expand to absorb almost any budget
And priorities. I spent a lot on a dining room table but recently decided I'd buy an all-wood with more assembly replacement bed rather a really expensive hand-crafted platform. Can probably just have my contractors assemble and I'll still come out way ahead.
It’s like boots - whites boots or Thurgood are objectively superior to almost everything else in terms of price to performance ratio. Most don’t buy them because they buy into Nikes bullshit propaganda. Product differentiation based on quality is the single most important aspect of price - even if companies do everything they can to obscure quality discovery.
When you care about the following (google these, they are the marks of quality in the furniture world), paying a pretty penny is worth it.
Kiln-Dried Hardwood, Corner-Blocked, Double-Doweled Joinery, Eight-Way Hand-Tied Sinuous Springs, real full-grain leather (Aniline or Semi-aniline Dyed)
I had a fairy minor (in the scheme of things) kitchen fire earlier this year. (Not my fault. Microwave burst into flames in the middle of the night.) Most of the contents are probably salvageable (or determined best replaced under replacement policy).
But I intend to be fairly discriminating as I move stuff back into the house. I had already started doing some sorting and donating/chucking bu this will accelerate it.
There’s a reason the US military pays for movers.
Me being too slow to get it is one of my great regrets in life.
Better/more expensive furniture is difficult to sell but also valuable enough to keep.
One problem is the delays on new furniture. I saw delays of 6-14 weeks on furniture when I last moved. I purchased a kitchen island from Ashley Furniture in 2021 which has still not fully arrived (the side-pieces are still pending in 2025) even though payments started as soon as the first item was shipped.
Also, you may find that furniture prices in 2025 are not what they were when you last moved given inflation.
It's just stuff you can or can't get. How would I know I can't get sofa? How much does assembling the furniture take? Do I book someone to help me with that or so I just pay for assembly? How much is the new mattress and why waste the old one, expensive and now destined to the skip?
How much is going to cost me the living room equipment? Not much, two gaming consoles, TV, 7+2 setup with a decent, 8k, flexible AVR.
Do I take the hit on buying the new motorcycle? Old, perfectly fine but a bit beaten bicycles will have to be thrown out as they look quite nasty (even though they ride well, in my currently 5th house), so it's a few grand on bicycles as well.
Do I need to throw out my network equipment as well? I mean, I could probably sell it on ebay for a fraction of the value and buy new for 20 times what I'll get from my old one, then just get through the pain of setting new software anew...
Etc, etc. I'm glad it works for you but it's laughable to offer your solution as a "best way to love" to everyone without knowing their circumstances.
The best way? Really? Perhaps if you're comfortable enough financially in a way that most people in the U.S, or even more so, the rest of the world are not.
I mean, how wonderful if you have the discretionary budget to simply sell at a typical major discount or donate away most of your major physical possessions and just buy everything new. For many, many, if not most people, attempting such a thing would be a huge economic blow in addition to the already often heavy costs of moving.
If some of the advice and observations often given on this site seem like naval-gazing, bubble-dwelling nonsense, it's due to laughable comments like this one.
With prices about to skyrocket and shelves about to be empty thanks to tariffs, mismanagement of the economy, and pissing off the people we depend on for nearly everything we have you'd have to be crazy to throw out everything you have and assume you'll save money buying new replacements for everything you lost.
They say to sell everything except what can fit in one briefcase, and to buy all that stuff new in the new place.
Super time consuming and expensive.
I don't want someone's used bed or used sofa, so I'll have to buy new. Almost everything depreciates with time, so you're looking at a house of the good, usable stuff that can be sold or donated for a fraction of the price over the course of weeks (in the meanwhile you can wash your family clothes in the river and eat out), and then spend weeks buying brand new stuff (I'm not sure if either of you knows how much the household equipment costs).
You're both likely talking from the perspective of the single małe loving in the small furnished flat and moving to another furnished flat. In that one edge case selling everything and buying new may work.
(just don't move the goalposts: you're effectively discussing with the stance no one took, because no one was arguing downsizing)
They said "suitcases" and stuff you can ship. Not one briefcase.
You're effectively discussing with the stance no one took.
I’m married, live in a big house, and I’m fine with “goal posts moving” to my own argument.
With the exception of giant high quality furniture I now have, getting rid of 80-90 percent of my shit would be economically superior to paying insane costs on movers. My wife won’t agree though because women hate minimalism they are obsessed with trinkets, do-dads, and Knick-knacks. (see women’s reactions to young men living with only TV and couch meme on the internet)
By combining moves with two or three others, you can get cross country moving costs on 3 couches and misc stuff to be in the 2-4K range. I know this because I paid that on my latest cross country move when I had about that much stuff last time.
Please grant people their individual identity beyond "you belong to the class of women and thus I will treat you as such".
Not going to tell you how to look at your wife, but random people you meet likely deserve more grace than you give them.
That’s not minimalism, it’s being a slob. Minimalism implies thought and precision, which is pretty much the opposite of the posts you’re referring to
Good on OP for not giving up and for going after insurance over and over.
Oh no, you wouldn't have access to that data. It belongs to the robot mover company, not you.
I've been waiting for that to happen in just about every product category I have ever used since the rise of surveillance capitalism and it hasn't yet. It's a fantasy.
Companies will always make more money by charging you as much as you're willing to pay and then also selling your data and/or using it against you for the rest of your life. No company is going to leave that endless flow of money on the table and settle for charging you a slightly higher amount one time. The shareholders won't tolerate that.
The most innocent use of that data would result in you getting endless spam from the manufacturers of every item in your home letting you know about the latest model you should upgrade to, along with spam from every competitor telling you why their product should replace what you have. Companies you've never even heard of would suggest you buy their stuff just because you happen to have something in your home that is somewhat similar to something they offer.
Maybe the IRS gets their hands on that data and starts wondering how it is you've managed to afford what you have? Maybe you divorce and your ex's attorney uses that data against you because you forgot to list an asset or to demonstrate that you should have to pay more in alimony, or to paint you as being less fit for custody of your children. Maybe you have something in your home that matches something that was used in a crime and you become a suspect when you wouldn't have otherwise.
Maybe you have things in your home that others would find offensive and activists and extremists target you because of something you have. Scammers and thieves will use that data to target you more effectively. Physiological profiles will be updated based on what you own and how well you maintain your possessions. How sentimental are you? How much do brands and trends matter to you? What do your items say about your values? Those insights will be used by people looking to manipulate you and your views.
It could impact the prices you pay when you buy things, factor into whether or not you get employed at a job you want, and it wouldn't just be happening to you either, but to everyone else in your household including your children.
There's basically zero chance of that data helping you in any way and lots of ways it could end up being used against you without you even being aware of the cause. Your health insurance company isn't going to tell you that they raised your rates because the sporting equipment you kept in your garage made it look to an algorithm like you're more likely to get injured. You just see the higher bill. Everyone who gets their hands on that data will try to use in any and every way that they can to benefit themselves and that will usually be at your expense.
Except with the moving damage risk, which is very significant.
The harms you're listing probably add up to less than a hundred dollars, if we're looking at the realistic risk.
I'm willing to trade information about myself for goods and services.
Most criminals breaking into houses aren't buying up targeted lists of likely victims from data brokers yet, but it's effective so you should expect that the number of criminals turning to those resources will only increase.
Also the author links to the moving company's website but the anchor doesn't have the rel="nofollow" attribute.
Does this work outside high-profile cases? A condo I lived in faced dozens of serious offenses from the builder (e.g., live electrical wires left dangling open in living areas during a construction dispute.) The lawyers filed complaints with the NY AG but were told it mostly adds to some aggregate and real action is taken when the aggregate is huge. Also, we were told that most AG attention is focused on Manhattan and not the outer-boroughs.
Was the builder in the middle of renovating and there was some contract dispute? Legal issues are always nuanced and construction can easily have misunderstandings. With builders I'd have either a good construction attorney draft a contract or just hire a reputable builder. (Matt Risinger, for example, won't deal with custom legal contracts, so you generally will have to choose one or the other. I'd go with a reputable builder and one that doesn't want to tarnish that reputation.)
Yup. 1988 "Moving" staring Richard Pryor had a scene about exactly this. Freedom of contract. Whoever you think you have a contact with will no doubt sublet it to someone else.
>Unavailable Due to the UK Online Safety Act
The Online Safety Act imposes new compliance duties on web sites with the potential for staggering penalties. I'm concerned my blog might fall under the OSA's definition of a Part 3 regulated user-to-user service. It might also qualify as a Part 5 service which provides pornography. Unfortunately, Ofcom's guidance for small services has been exceedingly vague.
I don't have the time, money, or interest to set up highly effective age assurance on a personal blog; nor do I care to spend any more of my nights and weekends working through thousands of pages of guidance and writing up risk assessments. I'm geoblocking the UK instead; Ofcom indicates that's sufficient to comply with the law.
Geoblocking is not precise. If you are not in the UK and seeing this message, you can use Tor or a VPN service to access aphyr.com.
There's a lot of uncertainty among small sites regarding what the OSA means and how Ofcom will enforce it. If you run a web site and you're struggling to interpret the OSA guidance, you might want to reach out to Ofcom's Online Safety team at OSengagement@ofcom.org.uk.
I know it's off topic but i think it has some relevance since it shows how this poorly conceived law is actively degrading my experience online, as was predicted here on hn.
$14K is a shock and a fucking ripoff even if it was done perfectly. How much time is needed to move otherwise? Two days, tops? One of which you spend anyway managing that move done by movers.
i personally am in a place where i still drive my own U-Hauls, but can very easily imagine the value of avoiding that amount of stress being worth just writing a huge check
i also must point out the even brokest friends i’ve helped move at least sprung for pizza for everyone who helped
Because I also wouldn’t do the leg work to vet a moving company before contracting them. Because I’ve only done the “get a U-Haul and get to it” method.
I recently learned that the company I work for incurred a delay on a quarter million dollar shipment of computer parts because the courier didn't know we took deliveries on the weekend (normally we don't but for $250k of stuff headed straight for production we did). I said "next time use airport to airport shipping" to cut out the courier altogether. What's another $400 on top of $250k? It's common sense to me.
This was a mentioned, but subtly key point: He wasn't able to turn away the movers due to a rigid move date. (Details unspecified; it begs the question of what would have happened if the movers cancelled, or were unable to get it done in a day)
Can you say more about this? I've never retained an attorney, but it's a skill that I would like to have. What is this process like, to get their services for a short, bounded engagement? How do I get started finding an appropriate provider?
Find 2 or 3 that are close to your home (It's nice not having to drive 30 min across town to sign or pick up documents) then give each of them a call.
Most will offer a free consultation to hear why you need their services, they offer what they can do for you, or maybe recommend a specialist.
Then they'll tell you their billable hour rate, or retainer fee* for something larger (probate court takes months) to get started.
If the price is right and you feel good about this attorney, then you're all set. Easy and worth every penny.
Reviewing contracts is probably one of those 30 or 60 min deal that might cost you $200-400 depending on their billable rate, but spending $14k on a mover, $200 is a rounding error.
Applies to everything
> I’m still unhappy with Flat Rate: they charged me a good deal of money for services they failed to deliver, and never paid for damage to the house.
* "Their representive apologized and acknowledged that a crew of two was insufficient"..."they charged me a good deal of money for services they failed to deliver"