That's a very cool hack, but there are tons of things on a system that aren't the CPU that would benefit from some moving air. A fan somewhere in the system that just moves a bit of air would, I think, really contribute to the overall longevity.
whalesalad · 45m ago
Would be wicked if it was one of those passive cooling systems that create movement of air just via temperature differentials
al_borland · 2h ago
Is Framework planning to ship this at some point? It seems pretty bad to need to print your own grill when Noctua collaborated on the project.
kurante · 1h ago
This isn't a problem. The article says that this is only if you're looking to trade-off performance for less noise:
> In other words, we would only recommend upgrading to the NF-A12x25 G2 if you seek to lower noise levels as much as possible and if you are willing to sacrifice the maximum performance headroom in worst-case scenarios that the G1 HS-PWM fan provides.
murderfs · 1h ago
That's for switching to the NF-A12x25 G2 fan (from the G1), which has a lower max RPM. The improved side panel appears to be a strict improvement.
GrayShade · 1h ago
It doesn't say that:
> In addition to redesigning and testing the Noctua fan grill, we also evaluated various other scenarios. These included replacing the NF-A12x25 with its G2 variant and incorporating an additional 8cm fan for exhaust purposes.
ginko · 1h ago
With the all-flat layout of the Ryzen APU and soldered memory I always though the framework desktop MB would be ideal for a single waterblock covering the entire MB.
hk1337 · 49m ago
I would really be interested in desktop if so many items weren't non-upgradable. It's bad enough the CPU and GPU, but understandable, cannot be upgraded, you're stuck with the selected memory at purchase too. Even the laptops have up-gradable memory and that's typically where you would see memory soldered to the board.
zargon · 24m ago
If they made the memory upgradable it would defeat the purpose of the machine, since memory modules can’t hit the same speed as soldered memory.
If you’re buying this you’re probably maxing out the memory to start with. 128GB is borderline barely adequate for local LLMs.
cyanydeez · 41m ago
I don't understand how many parts people really upgrade these days.
For one, the memory is soldered on because it's integral to the GPU the same way it's integral to the Apple's M3, and can be used the same up to 96gb.
At the form factor, what else are you expecting to upgrade over it's lifetime?
This statement makes it sound like there's a lot to upgrade when it's mostly just memory people seem confused about.
wren6991 · 1h ago
> It must be noted that customer safety and EMC requirements for the mini PC, a standalone electrical item, differ from those for hardware components (such as the PSU) designed to be inside a PC case. The safety standard suggests that ventilation openings on case side panels need to be less than 5mm in diameter.
...but it's a plastic panel? I don't understand how this helps with EMC.
InitialLastName · 42m ago
It's a safety standard, so the requirement is "toddlers can't get their fingers stuck in the fan".
jeffbee · 1h ago
There is no way the EMC situation is maintained with that modification.
moffkalast · 51m ago
Framework lets you buy bare mainboards, if you can't run those on your table without the radio police swatting your house then they wouldn't be allowed to sell them anyway.
therein · 3h ago
So just use Noctua fans? That'd do it.
evanjrowley · 2h ago
It's more than just the Noctua fan. The fan grille is a contributing factor to noise [0]. The new design features in the article could reduce the noise of any 120mm fan.
Well the fan in the Framework desktop is some kind of purpose built high performance Noctua fan that is significantly louder than usual. So they are suggesting to use the new grill with the fan that comes with it so you don't encounter throttling.
traceroute66 · 2h ago
Its been a while since I looked into "just use Noctua" for $another_use_case, but ...
Isn't the problem with Noctua (and similar "silent" fans) that they don't offer the same airflow throughput as their noise making bretheren ?
So sometimes its not as easy as "just use Noctua" ?
m463 · 9m ago
I think noctua fans are just better fans, noisewise.
They have better airflow design and sound dampening/isolating screw mounts.
I think the idea about reduced airflow might be backwards - most systems use PWM to spin the fans based on CPU or system temperature. This means the systems get the airflow they need.
Also, they make larger heatsinks + fans for certain systems that allow the same airflow using a larger, slower spinning fan. which means less sound.
that said, there are some noctua fans that can spin faster than others.
hnuser123456 · 2h ago
Noctua makes 2000rpm and 3000rpm max variants of the NF-F12. Otherwise, through (over)engineered geometry and materials, their fans usually do push the most air volume and pressure at a given volume level, with a more pleasant sound profile. But you pay for it.
tempest_ · 9m ago
Worth noting that you are also paying for the service.
I have RMA'd many fans through them and the experience is quick and painless every time.
Aurornis · 1h ago
Noctua fans are quieter than most for a given airflow level.
They have a range of fan speeds going up to very high speeds.
Many people doing modifications will substitute a lower airflow fan for even more noise reduction, which might be why you’re thinking they flow less. That’s a function of fan choice, though.
Noctua fans perform very well on a noise-adjusted basis.
No comments yet
lawn · 1h ago
For some applications such as cooling of an extruder for a 3D printer Noctua fans indeed don't offer sufficient airflow.
But I don't think that's an issue for computer cooling unless you're talking about extreme circumstances.
> In other words, we would only recommend upgrading to the NF-A12x25 G2 if you seek to lower noise levels as much as possible and if you are willing to sacrifice the maximum performance headroom in worst-case scenarios that the G1 HS-PWM fan provides.
> In addition to redesigning and testing the Noctua fan grill, we also evaluated various other scenarios. These included replacing the NF-A12x25 with its G2 variant and incorporating an additional 8cm fan for exhaust purposes.
If you’re buying this you’re probably maxing out the memory to start with. 128GB is borderline barely adequate for local LLMs.
For one, the memory is soldered on because it's integral to the GPU the same way it's integral to the Apple's M3, and can be used the same up to 96gb.
At the form factor, what else are you expecting to upgrade over it's lifetime?
This statement makes it sound like there's a lot to upgrade when it's mostly just memory people seem confused about.
...but it's a plastic panel? I don't understand how this helps with EMC.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32923226
Isn't the problem with Noctua (and similar "silent" fans) that they don't offer the same airflow throughput as their noise making bretheren ?
So sometimes its not as easy as "just use Noctua" ?
They have better airflow design and sound dampening/isolating screw mounts.
I think the idea about reduced airflow might be backwards - most systems use PWM to spin the fans based on CPU or system temperature. This means the systems get the airflow they need.
Also, they make larger heatsinks + fans for certain systems that allow the same airflow using a larger, slower spinning fan. which means less sound.
that said, there are some noctua fans that can spin faster than others.
I have RMA'd many fans through them and the experience is quick and painless every time.
They have a range of fan speeds going up to very high speeds.
Many people doing modifications will substitute a lower airflow fan for even more noise reduction, which might be why you’re thinking they flow less. That’s a function of fan choice, though.
Noctua fans perform very well on a noise-adjusted basis.
No comments yet
But I don't think that's an issue for computer cooling unless you're talking about extreme circumstances.