> These services come with real costs, especially storage and bandwidth. Charging for them helps ensure that users who benefit from these tools help cover their cost, instead of donors footing the bill.
This is the best way to monetize the extra sevices imo.
Animats · 1h ago
I don't want their extra services. Just a local email client. I already have servers.
Do not want to have to have a "Thunderbird account" in the "cloud", with overreaching terms of service and privacy terms that weaken over time.
Mozilla tried this with "Pocket", then gave up. But as part of Pocket integration, Firefox bookmarks were made less useful. Wonder what will be enshittified in Thunderbird to force people to the "pro" services.
mnmalst · 31m ago
Yes and that's exactly why they are additional services.
jraph · 59m ago
I'm sure you can still go on without the extra services, and you can still donate if you want to.
I see no reason for Thunderbird to be enshitified.
Thunderbird is also not Mozilla anymore.
mnmalst · 29m ago
I agree fully but Thunderbird is operated by MZLA Technologies Corporation, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation, so while Thunderbird is part of the broader Mozilla family, it operates independently and is managed as its own entity.
They left Mozilla at some point but later joined again.
sherr · 3h ago
I've used Thunderbird ever since it was released as a standalone mail client and like it - although it has sometimes been a rocky experience in the past. I use it now with Fastmail as my mail provider.
One thing I might be interested in is the "contacts" side of mail. In an effort to move away from too much Google, I ditched Google Contacts and host my own CardDAV using "Radicale" [0]. This works, and I also access it via DAVx on Android.
But would a CardDAV server be something worthwhile via Thundermail? Or perhaps too small a service itself? Maybe part of their scheduling tool "Appointment"? I might prefer having this hosted elsewhere than in my house.
I had to think to recall the reason. I had a support ticket at Fastmail about this in 2024 - I wanted to host my own CardDAV server and have Fastmail use and sync to this. This was not possible - I was told that two-way sync with other services was a "calendar only feature". I might re-visit.
Do you like Thunderbird better than Fastmail’s UI?
I’ve always felt TB to be clunky, outdated with an ecosystem of abandoned extensions that haven’t been updated since GMail got popular, but I haven’t tried it in the last 3 years to see if it got better.
newscracker · 4h ago
Here’s the link for anyone wanting to join the waitlist for Thundermail (the service):
I really hope this takes off well and provides some funding for the Thunderbird project too. Currently the only way to monetarily support Thunderbird is through donations (https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/donate/ ).
jannes · 3h ago
> [...] support Thunderbird is through donations
I doubt donations to MZLA Technologies Corporation will reach the Thunderbird project in any meaningful way.
They'll just use it to pay their executive salaries.
josteink · 2h ago
Or support radical activist groups unrelated to software or technology.
> The upcoming email hosting service from Thunderbird will support IMAP, SMTP and JMAP out of the box
Ahh, will Thunderbird finally see full JMAP support? Hooray!
For the self-hosters (other than those using Stallwart):
Cyrus does, of course, support JMAP (it's what Fastmail uses); Dovecot has apparently no interest / no manpower to really implement it themselves, but are willing to take a contribution[0].
One day I am going to configure Cyrus just for JMAP.
I followed the steps in that blog post and was able to mostly get there. I have a bit less padding between folders than the mock-up showed (which seems like a theme thing rather than a configuration item), and I don't have profile pictures in the message list.
rollcat · 2h ago
I really wish we could make uniformity a trend again. GTK has basically made it a rule that applications must do whatever the heck they want.
Then next day I'm using Inkscape on a Mac. Cmd-A on the canvas selects all elements. Cmd-A in a text field selects all elements on the canvas - and whatever text was in the field, now applies to the selection, so I start typing and instantly get garbage.
How do you Select All in a text field? Ctrl-A of course! - On the only system that has a non-broken copy/paste in the terminal.
I guess props to Thunderbird for leaving some space on the title bar to drag the window around? Do not take it for granted.
lol768 · 4h ago
It's such a shame that what was shipped there was so far off what the designs had suggested might be possible [1]
Two years ago we were told:
> We're going to build it right, and that means rewriting large pieces of our codebase. We'll ship the remaining stuff when they are ready.
I'm not sure how much more of the designs have actually been realised since then?
> Optimised for looking good on a screenshot and not for actual user interaction
No thanks :)
bee_rider · 3h ago
Someone should really make a UI where three black lines is a skewmorphic grippy surface (like you see on steps sometimes) to move the window around, just to mess with the hamburger menu devotees.
mixmastamyk · 4h ago
Indeed, and 16:9 monitors are passé already.
yogorenapan · 4h ago
I find this totally reasonable. I think it's a good way to fund open source. I just hope this doesn't create any perverse incentives to make self hosting harder than necessary
kayson · 3h ago
The Thunderbird Pro Add-on Repo [1] doesn't really make it clear - if I want to self host Appointment and Send, do I need to build the addon myself and change the endpoints? Or is there some kind of config?
> Let us handle the complexities of your email infrastructure with our comprehensive managed email server service.
abound · 3h ago
That's fair! I didn't know they were offering that. I think it's a recent development -- it's not generally available ("contact us"), and it seems more focused at enterprise-type deployments than end-user mail that your typical Fastmail/Protonmail/etc.
But for the original question:
> Is there any email hosting out there with support for JMAP?
Stalwart really isn't a practical answer, at least yet.
lb_ · 4h ago
Thundermail uses Stalwart
PopAlongKid · 4h ago
I much prefer POP, as I only send and receive emails on my desktop computer and I want to decide when I fetch new emails. Is there any way to make IMAP work more like POP?
Jaxan · 4h ago
Just disable any automatic fetching. IMAP is not pushing mails to you, but the client regularly pulls.
homebrewer · 2h ago
fdm, imapsync, lots of similar alternatives. Synchronize email to your machine and then use any MUA, or even several of them, to read it from a local directory (Thunderbird also works AFAIK).
They can also remove email from the remote and keep just the local copy. Pretty much 1:1 with POP. I've been using this setup (with fdm) for probably more than a decade.
alibrarydweller · 4h ago
Fastmail has had it for a while.
TkTech · 4h ago
I'd hope so, they kinda made it :)
clickety_clack · 4h ago
The @thundermail.com domain name is pretty solid. The domain name is an underrated aspect of email services IMO.
sunaookami · 4h ago
Any info on pricing for Thundermail?
mnmalst · 4h ago
I haven't seen any information on that.
viscountchocula · 4h ago
I wonder if there's a plan to prevent the spam/malware/csam issues of the previous iteration of Send. Maybe that it's a paid service will help stop that?
Pxtl · 4h ago
I hope we'll see them set up as an Identity Provider for oAUTH/SAML/OpenID/whatever other stupid plethora of single-sign-on protocols there are. It's disappointing to always see Facebook and Google for single-sign-on providers, never a privacy-respecting OSS org.
defraudbah · 4h ago
gateway timeout :\
NoSalt · 4h ago
I'm hoping this doesn't mean that "regular" Thunderbird will be phased out. :-/
ilvez · 2h ago
Adding these additional subscription services will never compromise the features, stability or functionality our users are accustomed to in the free Thunderbird desktop and mobile applications. These services come with real costs, especially storage and bandwidth. Charging for them helps ensure that users who benefit from these tools help cover their cost, instead of donors footing the bill.
TiredOfLife · 2h ago
> Adding these additional subscription services will never compromise the features, stability or functionality our users are accustomed to in the free Thunderbird desktop and mobile applications.
Has this been true ever?
MissTake · 3h ago
This is about the Thundermail service - not the email client.
This is the best way to monetize the extra sevices imo.
Mozilla tried this with "Pocket", then gave up. But as part of Pocket integration, Firefox bookmarks were made less useful. Wonder what will be enshittified in Thunderbird to force people to the "pro" services.
I see no reason for Thunderbird to be enshitified.
Thunderbird is also not Mozilla anymore.
They left Mozilla at some point but later joined again.
One thing I might be interested in is the "contacts" side of mail. In an effort to move away from too much Google, I ditched Google Contacts and host my own CardDAV using "Radicale" [0]. This works, and I also access it via DAVx on Android.
But would a CardDAV server be something worthwhile via Thundermail? Or perhaps too small a service itself? Maybe part of their scheduling tool "Appointment"? I might prefer having this hosted elsewhere than in my house.
[0] https://radicale.org/v3.html
https://www.fastmail.help/hc/en-us/articles/1500000278342-Se...
https://www.fastmail.com/blog/carddav-your-contacts-everywhe...
I’ve always felt TB to be clunky, outdated with an ecosystem of abandoned extensions that haven’t been updated since GMail got popular, but I haven’t tried it in the last 3 years to see if it got better.
https://www.thundermail.com/
I really hope this takes off well and provides some funding for the Thunderbird project too. Currently the only way to monetarily support Thunderbird is through donations (https://www.thunderbird.net/en-US/donate/ ).
I doubt donations to MZLA Technologies Corporation will reach the Thunderbird project in any meaningful way.
They'll just use it to pay their executive salaries.
Absolutely bonkers.
I know people here don’t like Bryan Lunduke, but besides the opinions added, this is factual, sourced reporting.
[0] https://gitlab.com/timvisee/send
Ahh, will Thunderbird finally see full JMAP support? Hooray!
For the self-hosters (other than those using Stallwart):
Cyrus does, of course, support JMAP (it's what Fastmail uses); Dovecot has apparently no interest / no manpower to really implement it themselves, but are willing to take a contribution[0].
One day I am going to configure Cyrus just for JMAP.
[0]: https://dovecot.org/mailman3/archives/list/dovecot@dovecot.o...
[0]: https://www.omglinux.com/major-thunderbird-redesign-early-lo...
I followed the steps in that blog post and was able to mostly get there. I have a bit less padding between folders than the mock-up showed (which seems like a theme thing rather than a configuration item), and I don't have profile pictures in the message list.
Then next day I'm using Inkscape on a Mac. Cmd-A on the canvas selects all elements. Cmd-A in a text field selects all elements on the canvas - and whatever text was in the field, now applies to the selection, so I start typing and instantly get garbage.
How do you Select All in a text field? Ctrl-A of course! - On the only system that has a non-broken copy/paste in the terminal.
I guess props to Thunderbird for leaving some space on the title bar to drag the window around? Do not take it for granted.
Two years ago we were told:
> We're going to build it right, and that means rewriting large pieces of our codebase. We'll ship the remaining stuff when they are ready.
I'm not sure how much more of the designs have actually been realised since then?
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36664515
> Cryptic icons with no text
> Optimised for looking good on a screenshot and not for actual user interaction
No thanks :)
1. https://github.com/thunderbird/tbpro-add-on
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43560885 ("Mozilla launching “Thundermail” email service to take on Gmail, Microsoft 365 (techradar.com)"—4 months ago, 341 comments)
Is there any email hosting out there with support for JMAP?
One can of course use Stalwart to run a hosted email service.
> Let us handle the complexities of your email infrastructure with our comprehensive managed email server service.
But for the original question:
> Is there any email hosting out there with support for JMAP?
Stalwart really isn't a practical answer, at least yet.
They can also remove email from the remote and keep just the local copy. Pretty much 1:1 with POP. I've been using this setup (with fdm) for probably more than a decade.
Has this been true ever?