With no explanation on the change, I will have to assume that taking off our shoes never made us any safer.
gryfft · 1h ago
The policy began as a direct response to the Richard Reid shoe bombing attempt in December 2001 [1]. This was as America was still reeling from 9/11, and full body scanners weren't standard at airports yet. Now they are, and they've improved explosive detectors too [2].
It indeed seems like it was always something of an overreaction, but an understandable one that's now fully overlapped by superior modern scanning.
Every time an article about airport security is posted the comments are the same.
To prove that I'm sane and my memory has not been corrupted by time or cosmic rays I google "airline hijackings by year", I look at the graphs in google images, and I briefly wonder what happened in early 1970s and 2000s before remembering what happened in early 1970s and 2000s.
Then I murmur "that's some fantastically effective theater".
privatelypublic · 43m ago
Also, this is from memory, but 'cotton wipe' tests for the compounds used didn't exist for several more years and a few more incidents.
xnyan · 1h ago
Until 2017, The DHS Inspector General’s office found that 90% – 95% of dangerous items get through screening checkpoints in testing.
What changed in 2017? They stopped publishing the results of the testing.
djaychela · 1h ago
Certainly in the UK it was linked to this attempted attack [1] but seemed very specific like banning laser toner cartridges as they were an attack attempt.
IIRC the modern "raise your arms" scanners had not been rolled out in 2006 when the shoe policy was instituted. perhaps the TSA has realized there's no point in making people take off their shoes when explosives/contraband within are easily picked up by the new scanners.
greyface- · 1h ago
The article implies that passengers who opt out of the "raise your arms" millimeter wave scanner and go through the magnetometer instead will not have to take their shoes off unless the magnetometer alarms:
> Passengers who trigger the alarm at the scanners or magnetometers, however, will be required to take their shoes off for additional screening, according to the memo.
saulpw · 1h ago
I have opted out of the scanner at numerous airports over the past 20 years, without fail (dozens of times), and not once have I been asked to go through a 'magnetometer'. It's been a manual pat down every time.
greyface- · 48m ago
It's been a few years since I've flown (and opted out of the MMW), but I recall being directed through the magnetometer first, then receiving a pat down on the other side. Maybe that was nonstandard.
0cf8612b2e1e · 14m ago
I have always opted out of the full body scanner and always had to go through the metal detector followed by pat down.
privatelypublic · 42m ago
Most of them arent mmwave.
dataflow · 32m ago
That seems like a childish and unreasonable assumption. In addition to the technology changes everyone mentioned, it could also have to do with other factors, like the actual threats the country faces, or the relative weight the powers-that-be place on the different sides of each tradeoff. It's not like this is a controlled experiment where every other factor is held constant.
There is not a single thing in this video that addresses shoes. I want my time back.
video tldr: 3d x-rays have made bag scanners more effective at screening
mc32 · 1h ago
It’s always risk/reward. The risk isn’t only physical; it can also be intangible. For now at least, it looks like they’ve reassessed and decided it’s not worth the inconvenience.
tw04 · 1h ago
Let me start by saying I'm no fan of the TSA having been traveling for business for 20 years. But we do know exactly why it was originally enacted. Which is that someone tried to hide a bomb in the base of their shoe to blow up a flight.
While we don't know why they've stopped, it could be any number of things: from they have other ways of detecting explosives that don't require your shoes going through a scanner, to they just don't think it's an issue anymore.
While a lot of what TSA does appears to be security theater, saying "it never made any of us safer" is a claim you have no way of backing up.
Analemma_ · 1h ago
The problem with this theory is that plenty of times (not just for PreCheck flyers), they arbitrarily decide you don't need to take your shoes off. It's not a technology thing, because they change it back and forth at the same gate at the same airport-- I fly enough to know. And whatever they've changed it to, they bark at you for not knowing, as though you could've known about whatever RNG generates TSA policy this week.
It's a power play, nothing more.
dataflow · 41m ago
> It's not a technology thing, because they change it back and forth at the same gate at the same airport
Are you of the opinion that unpredictability has zero security value?
recursivecaveat · 15m ago
Doing something at random half the time is definitely better than doing it 0% of the time, or predictably half the time. From a security standpoint it's certainly worse than doing it 100% of the time. If you're randomizing day-to-day its pointless though. If you had something in your shoe, you could just walk away once you saw other people taking off their shoes. You're not obligated to continue. If anybody asks then you forgot your phone in your car.
unethical_ban · 11m ago
Sure, randomly pulling people over or demanding access to their bank records might reveal patterns, but we supposedly have rights in western countries.
haiku2077 · 1h ago
> they change it back and forth at the same gate at the same airport-- I fly enough to know.
Are you using the same scanner machines every time? (They can look similar externally but operate on different principles)
The rest of the context that you conveniently failed to mention is that he was a drug user, admitted to border patrol that he had recently done drugs, and had photos of drugs on his phone; it's only him that's claiming he was denied entry because of a meme picture.
reverendsteveii · 57m ago
>Why did you conveniently forget to mention that context?
He smoked marijuana where it was legal and he didn't get interviewed about drug use until after they spotted the meme, which they called "very clearly a piece of dangerous extremist propaganda". So, because it obviously didn't matter.
nsypteras · 1h ago
> The transportation agency has spent years looking for an innovative way to allow passengers to move faster through the security checkpoints.
I think the writer had some fun with this one
RyJones · 1h ago
I hope this spreads to the EU; Warsaw security is so slow: everyone taking off belts and handing them through the metal detector, taking off shoes.
jltsiren · 50m ago
The EU already allowed keeping your shoes on in 2016. It's up to each individual airport / authority to decide if they want to invest in a more convenient screening process.
Metal belt buckles probably trigger false alarms in every screening device in existence. Even metal buttons and zippers may do that if the device is sensitive enough (such as those at SFO).
Aardwolf · 1h ago
Hmm, this seems to not have been necessary on flights within Europe, but I saw some people remove them every now and then, maybe out of habit
Cortex5936 · 1h ago
Depends where in Europe. I had to do it with my boots in Romania
bluetidepro · 1h ago
I will believe it when I see it. Most TSA agents don’t follow the official rules, and seem to just do whatever they feel like on any given day. I’ve had to take my shoes off for even TSA Pre which shouldn’t even happen already.
0cf8612b2e1e · 11m ago
What gets me is the inconsistency of everything. Do I need just my ID? Boarding pass? Both? Then you get annoyance from the agent because you do not know today’s policy.
josefritzishere · 49m ago
Less theatre in the security theatre?
bediger4000 · 54m ago
I think we'll live to regret this rollback. Think of all the horrific shoe-bombings that were prevented by merely forcing everyone who boarded an airplane for 24 years to take off their footwear and have it X-rayed. Thousands of lives saved.
kelseyfrog · 1h ago
Can you still opt-in?
buyucu · 1h ago
shoes-off policy at airports was probably the longest running snake-oil of all time.
It indeed seems like it was always something of an overreaction, but an understandable one that's now fully overlapped by superior modern scanning.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_63_(2...
2. https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/news/2022/10/06/f...
Edit: whoa, groupthink.
Every time an article about airport security is posted the comments are the same.
To prove that I'm sane and my memory has not been corrupted by time or cosmic rays I google "airline hijackings by year", I look at the graphs in google images, and I briefly wonder what happened in early 1970s and 2000s before remembering what happened in early 1970s and 2000s.
Then I murmur "that's some fantastically effective theater".
What changed in 2017? They stopped publishing the results of the testing.
[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid
> Passengers who trigger the alarm at the scanners or magnetometers, however, will be required to take their shoes off for additional screening, according to the memo.
video tldr: 3d x-rays have made bag scanners more effective at screening
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Reid
While we don't know why they've stopped, it could be any number of things: from they have other ways of detecting explosives that don't require your shoes going through a scanner, to they just don't think it's an issue anymore.
While a lot of what TSA does appears to be security theater, saying "it never made any of us safer" is a claim you have no way of backing up.
It's a power play, nothing more.
Are you of the opinion that unpredictability has zero security value?
Are you using the same scanner machines every time? (They can look similar externally but operate on different principles)
He smoked marijuana where it was legal and he didn't get interviewed about drug use until after they spotted the meme, which they called "very clearly a piece of dangerous extremist propaganda". So, because it obviously didn't matter.
I think the writer had some fun with this one
Metal belt buckles probably trigger false alarms in every screening device in existence. Even metal buttons and zippers may do that if the device is sensitive enough (such as those at SFO).