There is a point in history where App Store, the way it is operating make sense. It is worth pointing out that Steve Jobs didn't even believe the App Store would make money. Even the 2nd year running he was surprised by the numbers and couldn't make sense of it.
But modern society depends on using Apps on Smartphone. Even people might disagree we are at this stage I dont think anyone would disagree it is the
trajectory we are heading. The web simply dont offer the same experience and is not an alternative for argument sake. App Store held so much power that Apple should have relinquish its control long ago. At least by 2020.
Yet without Steve Jobs, Apple has been left on Autopilot to do what they were doing since Steve Jobs left. Steve Jobs often spoke about the importance of intuition, referring to it as a powerful force that can guide decision-making and innovation, sometimes even more so than intellect. And right now Apple has plenty of intellect, practically zero intuition.
Zak · 15m ago
I was surprised by how wrong Jobs got that. Native PC (including Mac) apps had significant usage at the time despite the surge in web apps and were particularly advantageous on a memory and network constrained device.
I wouldn't claim to have better general intuition about consumer preferences than Steve Jobs, but I called this one right: when the iPhone launched without third-party apps, I thought that was a crazy decision that wouldn't last once the competition started to catch up.
dd36 · 1h ago
Probably has loopholes to help Apple. Can’t trust anything.
ChadNauseam · 1m ago
Instead of cynically assuming you can't trust anything, you could read the text of the bill and see whether it has loopholes. You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised, and get the chance to update your worldview in a positive direction
jjtheblunt · 46m ago
The article does say the bill does not mention Apple or Google, though the author presumes they are the real topics of the bill.
walterbell · 2h ago
Looking forward to more options for detecting compromised iOS devices.
We also need an option to stay on Version N-1 stable version of iOS, during the months when Version N is being fixed in public. Otherwise, iOS devices are only secure about 6 months of the year, between March and September, until the cycle of vulnerability begins anew.
LocalH · 21m ago
I think as devices stop being supported and become obsoleted, it should be possible to install arbitrary iOS versions on them.
candiddevmike · 7m ago
Stop supporting? Great, release the source and firmware.
Should go for all code IMO, games included.
Analemma_ · 1h ago
You have that option now? iOS updates aren't forced.
walterbell · 33m ago
iOS update to most recent release is always forced during reinstallation.
It's not possible to reinstall any older version you were previously running. You will lose access to apps which are not compatible with newer iOS.
Waterluvian · 55m ago
Yeah. I have a habit of waiting a very long time to update.
doctorpangloss · 1h ago
Apple got away with disobeying the Epic v Apple orders for like 4 years. Something tells me they don’t care too much for laws.
The short version is that they were given a lot of flexibility in how they complied with the previous ruling and a lot of time in which to do it. The judge found their implementation did not comply, so she decided how they were to comply with very little flexibility and a short timetable.
doctorpangloss · 39m ago
Go ahead and read the first page of the April 31st, 2025 order that you linked:
"For the reasons set forth herein, the Court FINDS Apple in willful violation of this Court’s 2021 Injunction which issued to restrain and prohibit Apple’s anticompetitive conduct and anticompetitive pricing."
But this stuff is presented in not the most accessible ways. I tried authoring the tweet-length version. It's up to you, whom to trust or not trust on the Internet!
No comments yet
ocdtrekkie · 56m ago
I am pretty sure the majority of Apple and Google's privileged legal communications equate to "how do we draw this out as long as possible". They know what they're doing isn't legal, but since neither the US or the EU will actually claw back ill-gotten gains it makes sense to continue as long as they can.
shmerl · 53m ago
Apple should be also fined huge amount for banning competing browser engines on iOS and forced to remove the ban or continue being fined.
candiddevmike · 3m ago
Allowing other browsers==allowing a potential distribution platform they don't control. There's absolutely a reason they're withholding better PWA experiences on Safari.
I'd love to be able to publish TWAs on the app store, there is even web APIs for handling app store payments.
pyman · 2m ago
How did Apple get away with all this? They went from having a visionary to a mercenary as CEO.
sneak · 43m ago
The fact that Apple is still pretending that lack of sideloading is a consumer protection device is so despicable.
There are ways of squaring the circle. There are user experiences that can make even the dumbest user understand that they are taking the security of their device into their own hands.
Once they understand that, it isn’t up to Apple to decide for them that the iPhone that the user purchased must remain secure. Users must be permitted to make potentially dangerous choices with their own hardware if they so choose.
Mac users can disable system integrity protection and modify the OS or run unsigned apps (though the hoops to do this get more burdensome each OS release, and unsigned apps can’t use the secure enclave, or modern VPN apis, etc - another scumbag move by Apple) and the sky hasn’t fallen over there, nor in Europe where sideloading on iOS is mandated by law (and Apple implemented).
lokar · 41m ago
Would it be ok if they said they won’t attempt any service or repair to a device in this mode without a full factory reset?
Zak · 28m ago
I seem to recall having to accept that loss of all data is a possibility when getting warranty service on laptops. That seems fair for phones too.
Of course they shouldn't wipe/reflash devices needlessly if a hardware problem is obviously the cause.
grishka · 33m ago
No, unless they can prove that the problem was caused by software.
nickff · 19m ago
How would you prove that? It seems like a nearly impossible burden.
Zak · 11m ago
If I want to see if a PC's unusual behavior is caused by hardware or software, I boot it from a USB stick with a known-good OS and some diagnostic tools on it. Phones could be designed so that such a thing is possible, though current phones mostly aren't.
But modern society depends on using Apps on Smartphone. Even people might disagree we are at this stage I dont think anyone would disagree it is the trajectory we are heading. The web simply dont offer the same experience and is not an alternative for argument sake. App Store held so much power that Apple should have relinquish its control long ago. At least by 2020.
Yet without Steve Jobs, Apple has been left on Autopilot to do what they were doing since Steve Jobs left. Steve Jobs often spoke about the importance of intuition, referring to it as a powerful force that can guide decision-making and innovation, sometimes even more so than intellect. And right now Apple has plenty of intellect, practically zero intuition.
I wouldn't claim to have better general intuition about consumer preferences than Steve Jobs, but I called this one right: when the iPhone launched without third-party apps, I thought that was a crazy decision that wouldn't last once the competition started to catch up.
We also need an option to stay on Version N-1 stable version of iOS, during the months when Version N is being fixed in public. Otherwise, iOS devices are only secure about 6 months of the year, between March and September, until the cycle of vulnerability begins anew.
Should go for all code IMO, games included.
It's not possible to reinstall any older version you were previously running. You will lose access to apps which are not compatible with newer iOS.
2025-04-31, "Judge rules Apple executive lied under oath, makes criminal contempt referral", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43856795
2025-05-02, "Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43867692
2025-06-04, "Court denies Apple appeal in Epic Games case, keeping App Store changes in place", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44186891
"For the reasons set forth herein, the Court FINDS Apple in willful violation of this Court’s 2021 Injunction which issued to restrain and prohibit Apple’s anticompetitive conduct and anticompetitive pricing."
But this stuff is presented in not the most accessible ways. I tried authoring the tweet-length version. It's up to you, whom to trust or not trust on the Internet!
No comments yet
I'd love to be able to publish TWAs on the app store, there is even web APIs for handling app store payments.
There are ways of squaring the circle. There are user experiences that can make even the dumbest user understand that they are taking the security of their device into their own hands.
Once they understand that, it isn’t up to Apple to decide for them that the iPhone that the user purchased must remain secure. Users must be permitted to make potentially dangerous choices with their own hardware if they so choose.
Mac users can disable system integrity protection and modify the OS or run unsigned apps (though the hoops to do this get more burdensome each OS release, and unsigned apps can’t use the secure enclave, or modern VPN apis, etc - another scumbag move by Apple) and the sky hasn’t fallen over there, nor in Europe where sideloading on iOS is mandated by law (and Apple implemented).
Of course they shouldn't wipe/reflash devices needlessly if a hardware problem is obviously the cause.