You can try to pull them out, but they’ll hop back in. At least in my family, having been severely abused as a child appears to have been the major risk factor for growing up into a conspiratorial adult. And no wonder.
However, asking questions is genuinely a good way to interact with these types of people when they are making a scene. It’s not to try and change their mind, though. It’s to restore an air of calm and decency that gives them a chance to reconnect socially with others in the room. But you can’t be a pushover, either, and it’s OK to just walk away, ignore it, etc.
The one thing you shouldn’t do, IMO, is try to change their mind. Your need to do that will be palpable and will fuel the fire.
djoldman · 7h ago
Maybe folks should step back and ask themselves if it's their job to convince other adults that those other adults are wrong.
Find something else to talk about with your loved ones and friends. Don't fall into the trap of letting news or politics be the drivers of your life unless something has directly affected you.
paulryanrogers · 3h ago
> Don't fall into the trap of letting news or politics be the drivers of your life unless something has directly affected you.
Being a woman, child, or less than independently wealthy means politics will affect you
01HNNWZ0MV43FF · 4h ago
I'm trans, so unfortunately politics does directly affect me. Ask your family to do some reading about each party's platforms, and then vote left
atoav · 40m ago
The border for regular political discourse should be political movements that deny other peoples right to exist, based on natural attributes they dislike.
In the old times people would have been shunned (or beaten for being left-handed (in certain areas of the world) for example, a trait you're just simply born with. They tried to re-educate lefties so they use the right hand instead which lead to a whole host of psychological effects summarized in left-handedness suppression syndrome.
Then science came and whatever dumb superstitions people connected to left-handedness were seen in a different light and the superstition died out.
The problematic thing about today's anti-trans movement is that it is paired with such a distrust for science that they ignore every scientific evidence that would tell them that punishing someone for being trans is just as wrong as punishing someone for being left-handed. Just like there is a natural fraction of left-handed people in a population (which seemed to "rise" and then settled at its natural value right after society no longer punished it), there is a natural fraction of trans persons, gays, lesbians, bi- and asexuals, etc.
For me the Karl Popper's paradoxon of intolerance is a good guide. There is no need for members of a free society to extend tolerance towards the intolerant. In fact I think if we want to keep a free society we have a duty to fight back against intolerance in various ways.
atoav · 1h ago
Depends, if a member of your family have a slightly different take on fiskal autonomy you might just ignore it.
If a member of your family turned into a radicalized neo-nazi not talking about it is like abandonding them, just like it would be if they got a clinical depression. Certain kinds of ideology are incompatible with peaceful family life and papering over it will make it worse. If you're a well read intellectual, remember that this ideology ultimately would put you into the gas chambers if you said the wrong thing. A family member can have a different political view, but if that view threatens your very existence that is the limit.
Now if all you family is neo-nazis and you are the odd one out I suggest to just get out.
(I use the wikipedia-first paragraph defintion of neo-nazism here, and I have personal experience with people following that ideology, before anybody claims I mean any fictional strawman variant of it. If you find your own ideology within the definition of the Neo-Nazism article on Wikipedia, that says something about your ideology, not about mine)
MyHypatia · 1h ago
I get that only talking politics can be exhausting, but I think not talking about politics is the trap. If a hurricane can destroy my life, I should prepare for that before it impacts me: pay for home insurance, buy a generator, weatherproof my home, talk to neighbors.
I should prepare for politics that can destroy my life before it impacts me, and preparing for it means talking to other people about it.
If people don't vaccinate, and my baby gets measles before I can vaccinate her, she could die. If I have a complicated pregnancy, I could be forced to wait it out and get sepsis and die. If my friends get deported, they lose their jobs, homes, cars and I lose my connection to them. If I have to pay more for goods because of tariffs that is less money I can spend on my family.
If I wait until my baby has measles, I have sepsis, or my friends get deported to talk about these issues and convince others, then I haven't adequately prepared for politics that can destroy my life.
spiderfarmer · 2h ago
Based on my experience on this platform so far I bet this thread will lure out some of the most apathetic privileged people who’ll try to convince you shouldn’t care about other people’s wellbeing at all and that they don’t trust people who do.
In their view, having a person in charge that also lacks empathy isn’t necessarily something bad. And they’ll only change their mind once personality affected. That’s just how it works.
I could argue that it is bad, but I won’t. Because these people are literally unable to understand why people care about others.
dartharva · 1h ago
This poor article makes no clarification on the proportion of the "groups" it divides the subjects in its own study, and just assumes in its suggestions that the family members infected with those tendencies are even interested in talking to you in the first place.
> "The idea is to keep asking questions, to keep saying 'Hey, why do you think this?'" said Marie-Louise Paulesc, an associate teaching professor for the College of Integrative Sciences and Arts who co-teaches Seeking Truth: Misinformation with Hollinger. "And understanding their position and approach it from, 'You are still my family, right?' I want to keep the communication channel open."
> Next, you can ask probing questions. Asking them to explain their views and experiences will give them a chance to see the logical fallacies in their arguments.
Ah yes, all you needed to do was question them back. Why didn't I think of that? Patience and logical reasoning is something you know they are strong at after all! /s
However, asking questions is genuinely a good way to interact with these types of people when they are making a scene. It’s not to try and change their mind, though. It’s to restore an air of calm and decency that gives them a chance to reconnect socially with others in the room. But you can’t be a pushover, either, and it’s OK to just walk away, ignore it, etc.
The one thing you shouldn’t do, IMO, is try to change their mind. Your need to do that will be palpable and will fuel the fire.
Find something else to talk about with your loved ones and friends. Don't fall into the trap of letting news or politics be the drivers of your life unless something has directly affected you.
Being a woman, child, or less than independently wealthy means politics will affect you
In the old times people would have been shunned (or beaten for being left-handed (in certain areas of the world) for example, a trait you're just simply born with. They tried to re-educate lefties so they use the right hand instead which lead to a whole host of psychological effects summarized in left-handedness suppression syndrome.
Then science came and whatever dumb superstitions people connected to left-handedness were seen in a different light and the superstition died out.
The problematic thing about today's anti-trans movement is that it is paired with such a distrust for science that they ignore every scientific evidence that would tell them that punishing someone for being trans is just as wrong as punishing someone for being left-handed. Just like there is a natural fraction of left-handed people in a population (which seemed to "rise" and then settled at its natural value right after society no longer punished it), there is a natural fraction of trans persons, gays, lesbians, bi- and asexuals, etc.
For me the Karl Popper's paradoxon of intolerance is a good guide. There is no need for members of a free society to extend tolerance towards the intolerant. In fact I think if we want to keep a free society we have a duty to fight back against intolerance in various ways.
If a member of your family turned into a radicalized neo-nazi not talking about it is like abandonding them, just like it would be if they got a clinical depression. Certain kinds of ideology are incompatible with peaceful family life and papering over it will make it worse. If you're a well read intellectual, remember that this ideology ultimately would put you into the gas chambers if you said the wrong thing. A family member can have a different political view, but if that view threatens your very existence that is the limit.
Now if all you family is neo-nazis and you are the odd one out I suggest to just get out.
(I use the wikipedia-first paragraph defintion of neo-nazism here, and I have personal experience with people following that ideology, before anybody claims I mean any fictional strawman variant of it. If you find your own ideology within the definition of the Neo-Nazism article on Wikipedia, that says something about your ideology, not about mine)
I should prepare for politics that can destroy my life before it impacts me, and preparing for it means talking to other people about it.
If people don't vaccinate, and my baby gets measles before I can vaccinate her, she could die. If I have a complicated pregnancy, I could be forced to wait it out and get sepsis and die. If my friends get deported, they lose their jobs, homes, cars and I lose my connection to them. If I have to pay more for goods because of tariffs that is less money I can spend on my family.
If I wait until my baby has measles, I have sepsis, or my friends get deported to talk about these issues and convince others, then I haven't adequately prepared for politics that can destroy my life.
I could argue that it is bad, but I won’t. Because these people are literally unable to understand why people care about others.
> "The idea is to keep asking questions, to keep saying 'Hey, why do you think this?'" said Marie-Louise Paulesc, an associate teaching professor for the College of Integrative Sciences and Arts who co-teaches Seeking Truth: Misinformation with Hollinger. "And understanding their position and approach it from, 'You are still my family, right?' I want to keep the communication channel open."
> Next, you can ask probing questions. Asking them to explain their views and experiences will give them a chance to see the logical fallacies in their arguments.
Ah yes, all you needed to do was question them back. Why didn't I think of that? Patience and logical reasoning is something you know they are strong at after all! /s