I'm still looking for the 2025-2030 version of a kid's first computer. C64 and Apple ][ made sense back then because whatever the poor animation they provided back in the late 70s/early 80s are exciting ENOUGH for younger version of us. Back then ANY interaction is good enough. NES was the bang but it definitely requires a lot of imagination to match the sprites to the box arts. I think the key here is to force the kids to use imagination.
Actually I'm going to do an experiment on my soon to be 5-years-old son. I have exposed some cartoon shows to him, but none of them is very fancy. I gave him Curious George and Bluey, both fall more into the hand-drawn camp than the CG camp. I have never expose him to any games or mobile apps like TikTok. I'm going to expose NES games or C64 games to him and see if he is interested.
taylodl · 4h ago
Like many people my age (ahem!) the Commodore 64 was my first computer and I loved it and it's responsible for my long software development career.
But I don't want that Commodore 64 today.
I want the Commodore 64 of 2025. A machine where middle schoolers can learn the basics of programming while having fun with graphics and sound. Maybe even have a simple 2D gaming engine built-in. I don't know. I want the spirit of the Commodore 64, not the actual machine itself.
deaddodo · 2h ago
> I want the Commodore 64 of 2025. A machine where middle schoolers can learn the basics of programming while having fun with graphics and sound. Maybe even have a simple 2D gaming engine built-in. I don't know. I want the spirit of the Commodore 64, not the actual machine itself.
Exactly. This is what I think every time I see one of these old revival projects. I don't want a Spectrum, C64, Atari ST, etc...we have those, they're fairly easy to acquire and renovate. And are more than capable of being run on a FPGA. And there are dozens of projects built around the same old 6502, Z80, etc.
Stop locking your perspective into the 80s to try to recapture that nostalgia.
No, give me a new "hobbyist" computer in the spirit of those days. Throw an ARM m-series/RISC-V/etc on it with some custom blitter/vdpu and sound ASICs and 512MB of RAM. Give it some easily accessible programming environment on ROM, with an option to baremetal with ASM, C, etc. Add a few slots that are MMAPed in. And let the hobbyist field run wild.
markus_zhang · 10m ago
I have always wanted to learn to build a (relatively modern) computer like the one you described:
- Some 32-bit CPU, whatever, anything that is a bit easy to program through C/ASM, just to make sure there is no weird kirks.
- Support keyboards, displays, mouse, etc., just the usual ones. So a lot of drivers.
- Some 256MB - 512MB memory should be good enough.
- Has an OS, some programming languages, some tools, a good editor, etc.
This is like the Ben Eater 8-bit computer in adrenaline. It is probably a LOT of work just to figure out how to source the correct components, and build the thing, then a LOT more work to write drivers for them, and MORE work to write OS and compilers and tools for them. We can't use Linux because it has memory protection all over the place. We need something that newbies can poke and peek into, and simply reset the CPU if something is wrong, just like the micro computers in the 70s/80s. We DO want capable compilers and interpreters (e.g. C/Python) and good tools (like, some editors that have good auto-complete at least).
It's a bit like building a pad or a mobile phone, but without all those commercial consideration. Nowadays, to build a pad or a mobile phone, if I'm not mistaken, one simply push Android into the chipsets and call it a day, which is not what I want. But what I want probably doesn't make $$ so no one is going to do it.
mrandish · 1h ago
I've been into 'retro computing' continuously since the 80s and there have been a variety of interesting retro focused machines like this launched over the last 15 years. They are mostly hobby projects but some have scaled up through crowd funding to be marginally successful. A big success in this market would be shipping a thousand units but few reach that level. I think the reason is that despite quite a bit of interest the market is fragmented into different groups with differing primary goals:
* Capture "the spirit" of an all-in-one, simple computer that boots to an accessible language.
* Recreate an actual 80s computer via software, FPGA emulation or compatible CPU. A major sub-group is those wanting support for physical 80s media which can include disks, cartridges and even tape.
Within these major groups are a variety of different requirements. A big one is whether the machine must support modern displays (HDMI) or authentic retro displays (CRTs). If you don't have a CRT then HDMI is a requirement, however inserting what was originally low-res analog composite video into a hi-res digital container involves some significant trade-offs and design complexity. It's not trivial or cheap to do well with high-quality and high-compatibility. Then there are those who split on whether modern connectivity and conveniences like Wifi, Ethernet and SD card media are mandatory, nice-to-haves or definite should-not-haves. Of course, those conveniences aren't much use without sufficient CPU power and resolution to support a modern browser and OS capable of reading modern media which involve more cost and potential compatibility issues.
The great thing is that those who are retro-interested now have a lot of good options ranging from OG hardware to software emulation, FPGA systems and all-new designs. My advice is to be clear on what experience you really want, the specific traits you care about and the various trade-offs and challenges those entail before diving in.
I think the challenge is computers these days can do so much that a tinkering with something like this no longer feels futuristic or cutting edge like a C=64 did back then.
vunderba · 4h ago
The Mega65 was a stab at this idea - a self contained modernized version of the old 8-bit computer while trying to maintain backwards compatibility with C64 programs.
Which is based on the 6502-compatible 65C816 but used a simple banking scheme instead of the broken 24-bit address space that chip natively supports (no 24-bit index registers) The way video memory works in it is really clever and lets it really surpass 1980s machines in many ways.
which is priced right though it doesn't have the keyboard and instead based on the eZ80 which really does extend the Z-80 with 24-bit registers so that you can use all the RAM easily.
amichail · 3h ago
There was no need to include a floppy drive though.
Also, Python would have been better than BASIC as the built-in default language.
killerstorm · 2h ago
I don't think Python is better than BASIC. It's more powerful, sure, but it's crazy complex and fussy. Wrong punctuation and your code doesn't work.
If you want Python just use modern laptop, no need to retro anything.
BASIC has command-like statements, no complexity like lambda, classes, modules, etc.
mceachen · 1h ago
Are you remembering the same BASIC that I’m remembering? With fixed line numbers? Refactoring was near impossible. Spaghetti code was par for the course. You were forced to build everything twice or thrice if you wanted a final product that wasn’t embarrassing.
Just not having line numbers cooked in is a total game changer.
And no GOTO.
killerstorm · 3m ago
I mean it's a better language for middle-school kids. They shouldn't be concerned with refactoring.
Important thing about BASIC is that each "command" does a rather limited amount of "stuff". In that way it is kinda similar to assembly language.
graydoubt · 1h ago
I had a C16, and later a C128D (and therefore a C64). The C64 had the most limited BASIC of them all, with v2.0. So many advanced features were hidden behind PEEK/POKE. With BASIC 3.5 on the C16, they added the RENUMBER command, which made refactoring much easier, and it had a SOUND command, despite having a much simpler DSP implementation. The C128 had BASIC v7.0, which included a sprite editor, and much more advanced SOUND command.
If they upgraded the C64's BASIC to 7.0, that would already make a lot of things much more accessible.
zozbot234 · 1h ago
> With fixed line numbers? Refactoring was near impossible. Spaghetti code was par for the course.
Yup, even for the old 8-bit computers FORTH would've been a lot more elegant than BASIC. But back in the day BASIC came with highly valued conveniences such as a soft-float implementation that meant support for the "desk calculator" use case was available out of the box, and users could just go on from there.
amichail · 2h ago
Having a computer that boots directly into a built-in programming language is still compelling though.
It encourages the user to learning programming and develop their own apps.
glimshe · 2h ago
Python would be the wrong choice. BASIC is the ultimate "batteries included" language. No weirdness hidden behind dynamic types and you can make full games with graphics and sounds (in most implementations) without installing a single external library. BASIC is feature-poor by design and beginners can quickly fully master it. And there are classic variants without line numbers (no need for GOTOs) for those who hate them.
IMHO, humanity is yet to build a better beginner language, at least if you look at the late BASICs such as QuickBASIC.
kevindamm · 3h ago
What you're describing sounds a lot like the OLPC XO.
(disclaimer, I have maybe a bit too much of this retro hardware.. unhealthy amount, ahem).
Raspberry Pi 400 / 5 would be that.. but, in reality and pragmatically since it needs to be something widespread I'd argue it's actually a browser. In Chrome you hit Ctrl-Shift I and console is right there.
hakfoo · 4h ago
In that regard, I almost feel like a new Atari 800-series would be better.
The C64 had good graphics and excellent sound but so much of it was behind a brick-wall learning curve of poking. Atari's native BASIC at least provided some rudimentary access. You want something where the user can get a win on day 1, or it's getting buried in the closet with the rock tumbler.
Or maybe if they packed in a super-extended BASIC ROM. But pretty quickly you end up wanting something with more modern flow control and structures, maybe closer to "Qbasic with sprite commands" and then you're probably demanding more than what can be reasonably asked of a 6510-class CPU.
Is this all just nostalgia?
Nostalgia is one of our two core pillars - alongside modern innovation. Like yin and yang, these forces balance and strengthen each other in that retro • futurism approach.
The commercial power of nostalgia is real - and it will help fuel and fund the development of modern, forward-facing products in turn. It’s a symbiotic cycle: retro inspires, modern sustains. Commodore isn’t returning. It’s evolving, with purpose.
zozbot234 · 1h ago
They also mention that they explicitly wanted this - a state-of-the-art reimplementation of the old C64 - to be their first released product, which makes some sense. It's also the product where their Commodore trademark - the real value behind this new effort - is most relevant, shifting away from the old pattern where random products would be "Commodore" branded, with no real link to the company's history or to any plausible "retro futurism" vision.
johnb231 · 1h ago
Written by ChatGPT. The second paragraph is obviously AI slop.
This sentence is 100% AI generated: "It’s a symbiotic cycle: retro inspires, modern sustains. Commodore isn’t returning. It’s evolving, with purpose."
psadri · 4h ago
I agree. I recently started exposing my kids to programming and I chose a C64 emulator. The BASIC REPL is so simple/limited that it doesn’t overwhelm the kids with irrelevant syntax (those can come later, if they are interested). The fact that a 1..100 loop can introduce a noticeable delay. You can literally see the computer working. Primitive graphics and sound provide immediate feedback which makes learning engaging and fun.
rcarmo · 4h ago
We used PICO-8. Worked great for that purpose.
derstander · 2h ago
Picotron (also by Lexaloffle) might be an even better match for those wanting a retro workstation as opposed to a retro game console.
Some of it is astonishing given the limitations of the machine.
The technical mastery and creative problem solving going on here is what keeps the demoscene alive. The C64 is still going strong, new productions come out all the time.
And I can't think of a better machine for a kid today to start out with than an 8-bit machine. If they learn assembly language on a C64, they will have a far better understanding of how computers actually work than anyone taking a class in web or crypto or whatever they teach kids about computers today.
crims0n · 10m ago
Grabbed a preorder, the Beige one seems like a legitimately good deal at 300 USD; and it comes with a spiral bound user manual!
AlexeyBrin · 2m ago
Is there any way to see what the manual contains ? It would be great to have a programming tutorial like the original.
cadr · 10m ago
They at least have some cool technical advisors. And a "Chief Tramiel Officer".
ghusto · 6h ago
I get how they're using nostalgia, but it doesn't seem to be coming from a cynical place. The transformation of technology from a utility to a nuisance at best and a disease at worst, strikes a chord for me.
Computers used to be fun and yet require actual interest and effort, it's why I ended where I am. What a bait and switch.
spacemadness · 4h ago
It reads like Mark Fisher’s observation about capitalism absorbing all resistance. Resistance becomes the next market. So it’s doubly cynical as it’s a cash grab of sorts hoping to ride on everyone’s burnout from modern tech. I agree, it’d be better to just ride the nostalgia itself and let others come to their own conclusions about why they are nostalgic.
All that said I do miss this era of computing greatly where one could understand it inside out and that was encouraged. I loved the C64 demo scene in the 80s.
ibobev · 30m ago
I hope the original hardware of retro systems will be in production again someday.
aduwah · 5h ago
Am I the only one who gets sad when looking at the site? The resentment of modern computing and interconnected life feels extremely wrong with a Commodore brand on it.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the box, but to me commodore means the complete opposite. It was the tech that inspired me to start learning and later building complex systems. The evolution of tech after this machine did not steal anything from me, but enriched my life both financially and otherwise.
No comments yet
_spduchamp · 5h ago
I want is someone to fab real 6581 SID chips so I can do stuff like this and have it sound as it should.
10 FORL=54272T054295:POKEL,0:NEXT
15 POKE54296,15:TI$="000000"
20 POKE54277,255:POKE54278,255
25 POKE54284,255:POKE54285,255
30 POKE54276,17:POKE54283,17
40 FORA=8TO1STEP-1:FORB=ATO1STEP-1
45 T=TI+2952/B
50 POKE54273,3: POKE54272,A
55 POKE54288,3:POKE54279,A+B
60 PRINTA,A+B
70 IFTI<TTHEN70
80 NEXT:NEXT
90 POKE54276,16:POKE54283,16
vunderba · 3h ago
Absolutely love the SID chip. The clever way of imitating chord-based triads by just rapid arpeggiating on a single channel was super cool to me as kid.
smilespray · 1h ago
Wasn't Rob Hubbard one of the guys behind that trick?
derdi · 5h ago
Big props for the website footer: "Only essential cookies here - no tracking, no popups, just focus-friendly computing the Commodore way."
elvis70 · 5h ago
Good intentions, but the site is hosted by Wix which add their own trackers.
JKCalhoun · 5h ago
Pretty inexpensive? I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the pre-order.
I have a couple of KIM-1 "clones" and enjoy them as well. I feel like, in my old age, whenever that comes, I will enjoy them even more. Diving at long last deep into assembly....
dirtikiti · 3h ago
I get the retro thing... But...
How about a new operating system with backwards compatibility that runs on modern arm hardware...
Was at a friend's place a few years ago. He had an original c64, tape drive, disk drive, okidata printer, and a trove of disks. We'd been friends since high school, but I think he'd stopped using his by then, and I was more of the computer guy (we bonded over guitars, not code).
This was just sitting in his garage. "Take it - take it all" he said. Then... was sort of forceful with it, and started putting it in my car. :)
I took it back home, and... realized I can't connect it to anything. And I'm not a hardware guy. I hate hacking on that sort of stuff. So I ended up giving it all to a friend who was getting in to retro stuff with his son. I think they got it working and connected up to something. I also gave him my C128.
I still have the original Commodore 'Prolog' and (IIRC) 'Forth' packaging somewhere in the office here. :)
Looking at these (and probably some other incarnations) I'm tempted to get one only because of the built in HDMI.
I've poked around with some emulators online and it's fun, but the combination of the original keyboard and shape plus HDMI might be enough to get me to commit. Probably just the original beige though.
mdtancsa · 5h ago
Its so funny you mention the color. Looking at the image on the website, I was struck by the fact that beige could strike a visceral exciting nostalgia reaction in me. I mean, its beige FFS, the ultimate "boring" color :) I went from a totally disengaged / disinterested teen in school to paying out of my own pocket (I think $50 at the time) to take a course taught be Steve Punter in the basement of a library on the other side of Toronto on 6502 assembler -- in the summer!
th0ma5 · 5h ago
If it is all original, you'll want to be careful with the power supply. It's known to fail in a way that over voltages. Replacement ones can be made or bought relatively inexpensively.
mgkimsal · 4h ago
That was also in the back of my mind. Even back in the 80s, I remember those bricks being a source of heat and... shock sometimes. I'm just not a hardware guy, so gave it to someone who I think loves tinkering with that sort of stuff... :)
allthedatas · 5h ago
While I did get to use a Vic20 in school I did not have a c64 but my friend did. At home I had an Apple IIe (which I still have) and it was great but boy was I jealous of all those color C64 games and also the modem they had for it! I didn't get a modem until I switched to a PC in 1989.
skeeter2020 · 3h ago
Someone broke into my house and stole my Vic20 and tape deck; we used the insurance money to buy a C64 and disc drive. At the time it was very tramatic, but turned out to be a big blessing!
pflenker · 3h ago
This really scratches my itch. I love retro computing, the closer to the original hardware the better - but the one thing that gets in the way (and that can stay in the past!) are the horrible loading times. A new C64 is exactly what I need.
Cockbrand · 3h ago
I have a somewhat modded C64 with JiffyDOS and an SD2IEC, and it loads everything really fast. Sometimes I miss the weird 1541 noises, but generally, it's a great combination.
whartung · 4h ago
Wasn’t the Commodore logo and name sold recently for “seven figures”?
Is this the same folks?
Findecanor · 3h ago
The promo video [1] is on the new Commodore CEO's YouTube channel, so it must be.
The PCB looks like a rebranded "Ultimate 64" FPGA board [2], which has been out in a couple of iterations for a few years.
I still have a C64 in my basement in case I need a nostalgia kick. A few years ago I set it all up and loaded a game. I was surprised at how slow it is and how bad the game was compared to how I remember it - so I boxed it up again and have no intention of setting it up again to keep my fond memories intact.
I have a feeling many who buy this product will ultimately do the same.
atombender · 2h ago
I had the opposite experience. I bought a C64 at a flea market and hooked it up to an old Sanyo TV I had found in a dumpster. Loaded up Time Pilot, Drop Zone, and H.E.R.O., and had an incredibly fun time playing them together with a date.
Sometimes the nostalgia doesn't kick in, and clearly many things were objectively bad in a way that hits differently now. I wouldn't want to sit long nights writing assembly code and battle bad sectors on floppy disks. But I still think it's a great little gaming computer.
LeftHandPath · 6h ago
I grew up hearing the coders and hackers of yore regaling tales of their youth, the days they invested in things like the commodore or the IBM PC. I was born at the end of the 90's and never touched any of those things and always felt like I missed out.
I've done a lot of work with the IBM i Series (AS400), which has an interface from that era, but no games.
allthedatas · 5h ago
Keep manually refreshing that AS400 screen! In the late 90s while I was in college, for a while I had a graveyard shift job running backups and printing shipping labels at a large retailer and most of the work was done on an AS400 and also SCO UNIX before they became a zombie copyright troll.
No comments yet
egypturnash · 2h ago
I sure spent a lot of time with my c64 and the idea of having a new one in the exact same wrist-ruining form factor, except transparent so you can see that it's actually implemented via a tiny handful of modern chips, has absolutely zero appeal.
nucleative · 6h ago
In going to follow this project closely. This is looking like a case of aiming for the moon and actually getting it.
I'm sorta turned off that it doesn't include the joysticks.. and they are $40 each!
woodrowbarlow · 5h ago
with the name "ultimate" plus the hints in the original video, will this use Gideon's ultimate64? and it includes a case, keyboard (maybe mechboard64?), and flash cassette -- all for less than the cost of an ultimate64 mainboard? pretty light on details but potentially an incredible deal.
layer8 · 3h ago
I hope they’ll add a version with the C64C design down the line.
(Stephen Jones' project - he also has Commodore background, IIRC)
crims0n · 27m ago
For some reason this is not linking to what I expected…
gramie · 5h ago
Is Thomas Middledich (the central character in the TV show Silicon Valley) really the Chief Creative Officer?
Jeri Ellsworth as Technical Advisor is also a solid member of the C64 community.
skeeter2020 · 3h ago
It's good to have some healthy skepticism, but everything I've seen has felt very legit and pragmatic. It's funny-sad that a lot of people feel THIS is a nostalgia cash-in when Jack Tramiel was one of the least technology-driven, emotive figures in the 8-bit era. I'm OK if they do what it takes to keep the spirit of the Commodore community alive.
peterfirefly · 3h ago
Looks like they are using (are going to use?) her FPGA re-implementation.
cmrdporcupine · 4h ago
In a way I'd just have preferred for them to slap an official Commodore branding on the Mega65, which is IMHO a much more compelling and amazing product:
I find it a bit of a shame it’s so expensive though. By far, the most important aspect of emulation is the physical experience, from typing on an accurate recreation, to inserting floppies, to hearing the sounds and feeling the vibration. The mega65 could be a shell with a small ARM board inside and I’d be happy, the same way I am with my The64 Maxi.
austinallegro · 5h ago
10 PRINT "POOPY PANTS"
20 GOTO 10
RUN
egypturnash · 3h ago
10?"POOPY PANTS! ";:RUN
theonething · 2h ago
As a kid, when we went shopping at K-mart, I would hangout at the computer department while parents shopped and did stuff like this on the C64. hehe
sgt · 7h ago
I want one !
logical_proof · 6h ago
If the folks who bought the Commodore name 'Atari' this thing I will be disappointed. Not surprised, but disappointed. If this pans out its going to be awesome. Warily optimistic.
the_af · 5h ago
A nice emulated alternative used to be TheC64. I own one, not sure if it's available at a reasonable price anymore. Not a real Commodore -- it's running a version of VICE in an ARM chip -- but with the actual form factor of a breadbin C64 and with a working keyboard, which brings back memories!
You can play games and even program (basic, assembly, etc) using a real keyboard. Pretty cool!
I like this is hardware based rather than emulated. However, I'm unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64 didn't have...
rbanffy · 4h ago
I think it hits a sweet spot where the physical experience is close enough (where would you get an HDMI CRT monitor?). I maintain the physical interaction with the emulator is key for creating the illusion of real hardware.
> I'm unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64 didn't have...
They have beige.
the_af · 2h ago
Wow, downvotes for mentioning an emulated alternative that also physically looks like a C64? I didn't expect a reddit-like response from HN :(
boltzmann64 · 4h ago
I am sorry, but people are still using Commodore 64 these days?
slow_typist · 2h ago
There are even people who develop new games for the C64. And there is still an active demo scene I think.
richrichardsson · 32m ago
Yes, there is a very active demo scene, and frankly the people coding them are wizards.
But not just the coders, the artists (visual/audio) are also wizards.
Actually I'm going to do an experiment on my soon to be 5-years-old son. I have exposed some cartoon shows to him, but none of them is very fancy. I gave him Curious George and Bluey, both fall more into the hand-drawn camp than the CG camp. I have never expose him to any games or mobile apps like TikTok. I'm going to expose NES games or C64 games to him and see if he is interested.
But I don't want that Commodore 64 today.
I want the Commodore 64 of 2025. A machine where middle schoolers can learn the basics of programming while having fun with graphics and sound. Maybe even have a simple 2D gaming engine built-in. I don't know. I want the spirit of the Commodore 64, not the actual machine itself.
Exactly. This is what I think every time I see one of these old revival projects. I don't want a Spectrum, C64, Atari ST, etc...we have those, they're fairly easy to acquire and renovate. And are more than capable of being run on a FPGA. And there are dozens of projects built around the same old 6502, Z80, etc.
Stop locking your perspective into the 80s to try to recapture that nostalgia.
No, give me a new "hobbyist" computer in the spirit of those days. Throw an ARM m-series/RISC-V/etc on it with some custom blitter/vdpu and sound ASICs and 512MB of RAM. Give it some easily accessible programming environment on ROM, with an option to baremetal with ASM, C, etc. Add a few slots that are MMAPed in. And let the hobbyist field run wild.
- Some 32-bit CPU, whatever, anything that is a bit easy to program through C/ASM, just to make sure there is no weird kirks.
- Support keyboards, displays, mouse, etc., just the usual ones. So a lot of drivers.
- Some 256MB - 512MB memory should be good enough.
- Has an OS, some programming languages, some tools, a good editor, etc.
This is like the Ben Eater 8-bit computer in adrenaline. It is probably a LOT of work just to figure out how to source the correct components, and build the thing, then a LOT more work to write drivers for them, and MORE work to write OS and compilers and tools for them. We can't use Linux because it has memory protection all over the place. We need something that newbies can poke and peek into, and simply reset the CPU if something is wrong, just like the micro computers in the 70s/80s. We DO want capable compilers and interpreters (e.g. C/Python) and good tools (like, some editors that have good auto-complete at least).
It's a bit like building a pad or a mobile phone, but without all those commercial consideration. Nowadays, to build a pad or a mobile phone, if I'm not mistaken, one simply push Android into the chipsets and call it a day, which is not what I want. But what I want probably doesn't make $$ so no one is going to do it.
* Capture "the spirit" of an all-in-one, simple computer that boots to an accessible language.
* Recreate an actual 80s computer via software, FPGA emulation or compatible CPU. A major sub-group is those wanting support for physical 80s media which can include disks, cartridges and even tape.
Within these major groups are a variety of different requirements. A big one is whether the machine must support modern displays (HDMI) or authentic retro displays (CRTs). If you don't have a CRT then HDMI is a requirement, however inserting what was originally low-res analog composite video into a hi-res digital container involves some significant trade-offs and design complexity. It's not trivial or cheap to do well with high-quality and high-compatibility. Then there are those who split on whether modern connectivity and conveniences like Wifi, Ethernet and SD card media are mandatory, nice-to-haves or definite should-not-haves. Of course, those conveniences aren't much use without sufficient CPU power and resolution to support a modern browser and OS capable of reading modern media which involve more cost and potential compatibility issues.
The great thing is that those who are retro-interested now have a lot of good options ranging from OG hardware to software emulation, FPGA systems and all-new designs. My advice is to be clear on what experience you really want, the specific traits you care about and the various trade-offs and challenges those entail before diving in.
I think the challenge is computers these days can do so much that a tinkering with something like this no longer feels futuristic or cutting edge like a C=64 did back then.
https://mega65.org
https://www.commanderx16.com/
Which is based on the 6502-compatible 65C816 but used a simple banking scheme instead of the broken 24-bit address space that chip natively supports (no 24-bit index registers) The way video memory works in it is really clever and lets it really surpass 1980s machines in many ways.
My favorite retrocomputer though has to be
https://www.olimex.com/Products/Retro-Computers/AgonLight2/o...
which is priced right though it doesn't have the keyboard and instead based on the eZ80 which really does extend the Z-80 with 24-bit registers so that you can use all the RAM easily.
Also, Python would have been better than BASIC as the built-in default language.
If you want Python just use modern laptop, no need to retro anything.
BASIC has command-like statements, no complexity like lambda, classes, modules, etc.
Just not having line numbers cooked in is a total game changer.
And no GOTO.
Important thing about BASIC is that each "command" does a rather limited amount of "stuff". In that way it is kinda similar to assembly language.
If they upgraded the C64's BASIC to 7.0, that would already make a lot of things much more accessible.
Yup, even for the old 8-bit computers FORTH would've been a lot more elegant than BASIC. But back in the day BASIC came with highly valued conveniences such as a soft-float implementation that meant support for the "desk calculator" use case was available out of the box, and users could just go on from there.
It encourages the user to learning programming and develop their own apps.
IMHO, humanity is yet to build a better beginner language, at least if you look at the late BASICs such as QuickBASIC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC_XO
Raspberry Pi 400 / 5 would be that.. but, in reality and pragmatically since it needs to be something widespread I'd argue it's actually a browser. In Chrome you hit Ctrl-Shift I and console is right there.
The C64 had good graphics and excellent sound but so much of it was behind a brick-wall learning curve of poking. Atari's native BASIC at least provided some rudimentary access. You want something where the user can get a win on day 1, or it's getting buried in the closet with the rock tumbler.
Or maybe if they packed in a super-extended BASIC ROM. But pretty quickly you end up wanting something with more modern flow control and structures, maybe closer to "Qbasic with sprite commands" and then you're probably demanding more than what can be reasonably asked of a 6510-class CPU.
https://revive-machines.com/index-en.html
Is this all just nostalgia? Nostalgia is one of our two core pillars - alongside modern innovation. Like yin and yang, these forces balance and strengthen each other in that retro • futurism approach.
The commercial power of nostalgia is real - and it will help fuel and fund the development of modern, forward-facing products in turn. It’s a symbiotic cycle: retro inspires, modern sustains. Commodore isn’t returning. It’s evolving, with purpose.
This sentence is 100% AI generated: "It’s a symbiotic cycle: retro inspires, modern sustains. Commodore isn’t returning. It’s evolving, with purpose."
https://www.lexaloffle.com/picotron.php
Why not have both?
You could buy this and you could setup EndlessOS:
https://www.endlessos.org/os
https://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?platform%5B0%5D=Commodore...
Some of it is astonishing given the limitations of the machine.
The technical mastery and creative problem solving going on here is what keeps the demoscene alive. The C64 is still going strong, new productions come out all the time.
And I can't think of a better machine for a kid today to start out with than an 8-bit machine. If they learn assembly language on a C64, they will have a far better understanding of how computers actually work than anyone taking a class in web or crypto or whatever they teach kids about computers today.
Computers used to be fun and yet require actual interest and effort, it's why I ended where I am. What a bait and switch.
All that said I do miss this era of computing greatly where one could understand it inside out and that was encouraged. I loved the C64 demo scene in the 80s.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to have the box, but to me commodore means the complete opposite. It was the tech that inspired me to start learning and later building complex systems. The evolution of tech after this machine did not steal anything from me, but enriched my life both financially and otherwise.
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10 FORL=54272T054295:POKEL,0:NEXT
15 POKE54296,15:TI$="000000"
20 POKE54277,255:POKE54278,255
25 POKE54284,255:POKE54285,255
30 POKE54276,17:POKE54283,17
40 FORA=8TO1STEP-1:FORB=ATO1STEP-1
45 T=TI+2952/B
50 POKE54273,3: POKE54272,A
55 POKE54288,3:POKE54279,A+B
60 PRINTA,A+B
70 IFTI<TTHEN70
80 NEXT:NEXT
90 POKE54276,16:POKE54283,16
I have a couple of KIM-1 "clones" and enjoy them as well. I feel like, in my old age, whenever that comes, I will enjoy them even more. Diving at long last deep into assembly....
How about a new operating system with backwards compatibility that runs on modern arm hardware...
and
https://myretrocomputer.com/
This was just sitting in his garage. "Take it - take it all" he said. Then... was sort of forceful with it, and started putting it in my car. :)
I took it back home, and... realized I can't connect it to anything. And I'm not a hardware guy. I hate hacking on that sort of stuff. So I ended up giving it all to a friend who was getting in to retro stuff with his son. I think they got it working and connected up to something. I also gave him my C128.
I still have the original Commodore 'Prolog' and (IIRC) 'Forth' packaging somewhere in the office here. :)
Looking at these (and probably some other incarnations) I'm tempted to get one only because of the built in HDMI.
I've poked around with some emulators online and it's fun, but the combination of the original keyboard and shape plus HDMI might be enough to get me to commit. Probably just the original beige though.
Is this the same folks?
The PCB looks like a rebranded "Ultimate 64" FPGA board [2], which has been out in a couple of iterations for a few years.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2fGP59mJ5M
2. https://ultimate64.com/
I have a feeling many who buy this product will ultimately do the same.
Sometimes the nostalgia doesn't kick in, and clearly many things were objectively bad in a way that hits differently now. I wouldn't want to sit long nights writing assembly code and battle bad sectors on floppy disks. But I still think it's a great little gaming computer.
I've done a lot of work with the IBM i Series (AS400), which has an interface from that era, but no games.
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Let's see!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/checkmate1500mini/retro...
(Stephen Jones' project - he also has Commodore background, IIRC)
Jeri Ellsworth as Technical Advisor is also a solid member of the C64 community.
https://mega65.org/
Huge labour of love, and far more interesting.
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You can play games and even program (basic, assembly, etc) using a real keyboard. Pretty cool!
I like this is hardware based rather than emulated. However, I'm unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64 didn't have...
> I'm unconvinced by the color changing case, which the C64 didn't have...
They have beige.
But not just the coders, the artists (visual/audio) are also wizards.