tzedek tzedek tirdof (justice, justice shall you pursue) "
pfannkuchen · 5h ago
Historically, don’t most moral codes only apply to the in group?
stephen_g · 4h ago
Not the Torah - e.g. “[18] He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing. [19] Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.” Deuteronomy 10:18-19 (ESV)
Cordiali · 4h ago
Regarding the second one, variations of that, to help or protect strangers/travellers, seems to have been relatively common across a variety of historical cultures.
Tangentially, it also reminds me of a woman's grave that was found in Denmark I think. I can't remember how old the grave was, but something like 3-4000 years. They were able to use isotope analysis of her teeth, hair, stomach contents, etc. to trace her movements.
She was from the area, but in the last year of her life, she'd travelled down to around Switzerland and back. There was a documentary about it, I'll see if I can find it...
Cordiali · 3h ago
Well... I'm not sure which bog body it was, there were a few!
It might've been the 'Haraldskær Woman', I found an article [1] about her which roughly matches my recollections, and is from around the same time I would've seen the documentary. Although she might've only travelled as far as central Germany.
Tangential, but I am always skeptical of these sorts of reconstructed stories when they rely on purely academic methods such as ancient stomach contents analysis and inferred historical geographic flora. Like, if that’s wrong somehow, how would you know, exactly? Both of those examples are fundamentally non-verifiable.
Cordiali · 2h ago
You can check if there's agreement between different techniques. Tooth enamel would be a pretty trustworthy source of information, for example. It just depends on what level of confidence you want in the results.
I'm personally comfortable with a "probable" or "it's likely that" in my history docos. I'm a lot less comfortable with that standard when it comes to planes, trains, and automobiles.
pfannkuchen · 4h ago
And the New Testament says all kinds of things Christians don’t follow in practice as well.
nielsbot · 5h ago
Hopefully we've evolved.
pfannkuchen · 5h ago
It makes complete sense that people feel that way. European and Euro derived cultures are universalist from Christianity. But universalism isn’t the norm for moral systems throughout history. We only feel like universalism is best because it permeates the morality we grew up with.
nivertech · 4h ago
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Gibbon1 · 4h ago
I'm not sure what to say about people that encourage other people to keep starting wars they can't win instead of cutting a deal. While being at no personal risk themselves.
No comments yet
idiomat9000 · 3h ago
Greater Israel is a projected Halucination of the western left, similar real as "only white people can be acteurs or colonizers in history ".
Israel traded in "great Israel " territory several times (including the fringe settler fanatics sitting on it) for peace with its neighbors. Sinai to egypt, litani lands to lebanon, ghaza to hamas. Only to get then attacked by the party it made peace with .
(which is legitimized in islam, as mohamed the perfect being made peace contracts and then attacked the unbelievers of mekka with their guard down after a peace treaty ).
So what to do with a permanent hostile neighborhood with which no peace is possible and for which all "we want peace" statements are actually "we want to rearm to than do another islamo supremacist attack". You can make treaties with russia or hamas all you want, but all you get is toilet paper..
StopDisinfo910 · 3h ago
The whole point of the article you are commenting on is discussing the history of the notion of Eretz Yisrael, a political point which has always existed in Israel and has become significant after Netanyahu recent interview - certainly not a “Western fantasy” - and confront it with how it was applied during Israel history.
No one is discussing than Ben-Gurion did use borders as a négociation tool. But Likud’s 1977 platform also exists and the “Yinon plan”.
The main question is how relevant is the concept to Israel current political environment and ambitions.
I have no comment to make about your last paragraph. I fear we have reached the point where history will have to be the judge.
Daishiman · 3h ago
This is such a tremendously biased and ignorant e reading of history it blows my mind.
Hamas is a modern creation that has nothing to do with Gaza. Gaza was a refugee camp for the displaced Palestinianas, many who came from towns torched by Jewish paramilitary forces.
To talk about Islam legitimizing attacking nonbelievers is as bigoted a statement as characterizing Judaism by the insane beliefs of the half million settlers who constantly bulldoze Palestinian towns (and act which the West refuses to call it what it is: terrorism and ethnic cleansing).
For the Palestinians and the southern Lebanese who have also been bombed by Israel, or the innocent people who die every day in Gaza, Israel is the “permanent hostile neighbor”. Hamas and Hezbollah didn’t come out of the ether.
No comments yet
4gotunameagain · 3h ago
Israel is by definition a western colony and a planted, newly formed state.
Of course the displaced people that have been living there for thousands of years will be aggressive against it.
What is happening in Gaza is not just atrocious, it is an offence to the very concept of humanity.
No comments yet
lifestyleguru · 2h ago
When people start quoting their "holy book" you know shit is going to turn insane.
tzedek tzedek tirdof (justice, justice shall you pursue) "
Tangentially, it also reminds me of a woman's grave that was found in Denmark I think. I can't remember how old the grave was, but something like 3-4000 years. They were able to use isotope analysis of her teeth, hair, stomach contents, etc. to trace her movements.
She was from the area, but in the last year of her life, she'd travelled down to around Switzerland and back. There was a documentary about it, I'll see if I can find it...
It might've been the 'Haraldskær Woman', I found an article [1] about her which roughly matches my recollections, and is from around the same time I would've seen the documentary. Although she might've only travelled as far as central Germany.
[1]: https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/4407
I'm personally comfortable with a "probable" or "it's likely that" in my history docos. I'm a lot less comfortable with that standard when it comes to planes, trains, and automobiles.
No comments yet
Israel traded in "great Israel " territory several times (including the fringe settler fanatics sitting on it) for peace with its neighbors. Sinai to egypt, litani lands to lebanon, ghaza to hamas. Only to get then attacked by the party it made peace with . (which is legitimized in islam, as mohamed the perfect being made peace contracts and then attacked the unbelievers of mekka with their guard down after a peace treaty ).
So what to do with a permanent hostile neighborhood with which no peace is possible and for which all "we want peace" statements are actually "we want to rearm to than do another islamo supremacist attack". You can make treaties with russia or hamas all you want, but all you get is toilet paper..
No one is discussing than Ben-Gurion did use borders as a négociation tool. But Likud’s 1977 platform also exists and the “Yinon plan”.
The main question is how relevant is the concept to Israel current political environment and ambitions.
I have no comment to make about your last paragraph. I fear we have reached the point where history will have to be the judge.
Hamas is a modern creation that has nothing to do with Gaza. Gaza was a refugee camp for the displaced Palestinianas, many who came from towns torched by Jewish paramilitary forces.
To talk about Islam legitimizing attacking nonbelievers is as bigoted a statement as characterizing Judaism by the insane beliefs of the half million settlers who constantly bulldoze Palestinian towns (and act which the West refuses to call it what it is: terrorism and ethnic cleansing).
For the Palestinians and the southern Lebanese who have also been bombed by Israel, or the innocent people who die every day in Gaza, Israel is the “permanent hostile neighbor”. Hamas and Hezbollah didn’t come out of the ether.
No comments yet
Of course the displaced people that have been living there for thousands of years will be aggressive against it.
What is happening in Gaza is not just atrocious, it is an offence to the very concept of humanity.
No comments yet