This is often made worse as a result of hiring outside consultants. Firstly they don't have the institutional knowledge you have when starting a project, but they also aren't incentivised to properly document and hand over their knowledge at the end since that means less future work.
This is why a lot of government projects take so long, they don't see the value in keeping an in-house team of trained experts (see the difference in train line contruction costs in the UK compared to Spain), until you realised how good they were but you can't hire them back.
a_shovel · 1h ago
I've heard this is part of why major infrastructure projects in America can be so expensive. A city builds one subway line, and everyone working on the project has no experience, so it takes a long time and is expensive. The expense convinces people to oppose any more projects, so the city doesn't build any public transit for a decade(s). By the time they're ready to build another line, all the experience has evaporated, so the new line takes a long time and is expensive. Repeat forever.
pm215 · 51m ago
There's an example of this in railway electrification: if you scroll down to the graph in https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5801/cmselect/cmtran... it shows that the UK tends to do electrification as occasional big projects, whereas Germany has consistently done about the same mileage every year for decades, presumably with the same institutions maintaining their expertise and just moving on to the next bit of track. Their costs are a quarter of the UK's...
clickety_clack · 34m ago
There’s strategic bidding as well. Specifications cannot cover every conceivable occurrence over the course of a 4 year construction project, so contractors can structure their bid to be low upfront with big pick ups later for change orders when issues arise.
antisthenes · 1h ago
That makes sense. It seems like during the continuous "building up America" period of the late 40s through mid 70s there was no problem of getting shit done at reasonable cost, because of continuously available institutional knowledge.
Once large infrastructure projects become sporadic in nature, you begin to run into issues.
The solution has to be continuous stimulus, but that also runs into problems of corruption and capture by special interests (the longer the stimulus, the more incentive there is for 3rd parties to appropriate funds).
stouset · 55m ago
Somehow, other nations have managed to figure this out. Of the developed world, seemingly only Americans are resigned to the belief that such things are sadly impossible.
> What happened next, you may not be surprised to hear, comes in different versions. The person who spotted that there might be a problem may have been a member of Her Majesty’s Constabulary…
>> While they were away, a passing policeman noticed an extraordinary whirlpool in the normally placid canal. He also noticed that the water level was falling. He rushed off to find the dredging gang. By the time they all returned, the canal had disappeared. It was then that realisation dawned. Jack and his men had pulled out the plug of the canal. One-and-a-half miles of waterway had gone down the drain.
> It may have been three anglers who raised the alarm, and given that they have names — Howard Poucher, Graham Boon and Pete Moxon — maybe that version’s true. Another telling says it wasn’t until the evening that
>> local police contacted Stuart Robinson, the British Waterways section inspector.
notahacker · 13m ago
Other relevant context: sections of UK canals being unintentional drained isn't particularly unusual, although the culprit is usually a paddle left open on a lock gate or a leaky culvert rather than a plug being pulled. Whether that inconveniences anyone for any length of time depends mostly on how full the reservoirs at the top end of the canal are...
Wouldn't have been that unusual in 1972 when nearly all the canals including that one had ceased commercial operations and many of them had been intentionally drained either. I suspect the transition from the canal being infrastructure maintained by locally-stationed full time professionals to a pleasure cruiseway which the new waterways board was willing to devote a bit of time to maintaining only after the previous one had spent several years trying to get it shut down probably had as much impact as the Blitz on the work crew having no idea about plugholes...
tolerance · 1h ago
Perhaps tangentially related Re: “Chesterfield’s plug", Chesterton’s fence came to mind today while mulling over this sort of “forgetfulness” (which tends toward outright negligence) in my own circles.
Institutional memory is not information or documents - it's people.
Every single real-world process has implicit knowledge. And you can't always capture that knowledge of paper.
But, many corporations seem to want to get rid of their most experienced people to save money and have better quarterly results for the stock market.
phkahler · 3m ago
Yes, I think people create more internal documentation then they read.
freedomben · 1h ago
Apologies for bring in "AI" to a non-AI thread, but I really do think that things will be a game changer for institutional memory, both at recording it and recovering it. I don't personally use them but I have many coworkers that use AI tools to join meetings and get summaries/transcriptions aftward that they can read or query (also using AI). As people get more used to it, I would imagine that sort of thing becomes standard practice (regardless of whether or not it should, but that's a different topic)
This is why a lot of government projects take so long, they don't see the value in keeping an in-house team of trained experts (see the difference in train line contruction costs in the UK compared to Spain), until you realised how good they were but you can't hire them back.
Once large infrastructure projects become sporadic in nature, you begin to run into issues.
The solution has to be continuous stimulus, but that also runs into problems of corruption and capture by special interests (the longer the stimulus, the more incentive there is for 3rd parties to appropriate funds).
> What happened next, you may not be surprised to hear, comes in different versions. The person who spotted that there might be a problem may have been a member of Her Majesty’s Constabulary…
>> While they were away, a passing policeman noticed an extraordinary whirlpool in the normally placid canal. He also noticed that the water level was falling. He rushed off to find the dredging gang. By the time they all returned, the canal had disappeared. It was then that realisation dawned. Jack and his men had pulled out the plug of the canal. One-and-a-half miles of waterway had gone down the drain.
> It may have been three anglers who raised the alarm, and given that they have names — Howard Poucher, Graham Boon and Pete Moxon — maybe that version’s true. Another telling says it wasn’t until the evening that
>> local police contacted Stuart Robinson, the British Waterways section inspector.
Wouldn't have been that unusual in 1972 when nearly all the canals including that one had ceased commercial operations and many of them had been intentionally drained either. I suspect the transition from the canal being infrastructure maintained by locally-stationed full time professionals to a pleasure cruiseway which the new waterways board was willing to devote a bit of time to maintaining only after the previous one had spent several years trying to get it shut down probably had as much impact as the Blitz on the work crew having no idea about plugholes...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton#Chesterton's_...
Solid writing.
Institutional memory is not information or documents - it's people.
Every single real-world process has implicit knowledge. And you can't always capture that knowledge of paper.
But, many corporations seem to want to get rid of their most experienced people to save money and have better quarterly results for the stock market.