It's amazing how coherent Zig's fundamental building blocks are as a programming language, everything fits together like a puzzle.
This post reminds me of one of Andrew's early talks about the type system and the comptime... With the core building blocks, we can achieve elegant solutions without adding unnecessary syntax complexity.
delifue · 9h ago
In my opinion Zig is elegant except for one thing: cannot attach data to error.
You have to workaround by things like passing into a pointer to error object.
nektro · 5h ago
this is because attaching a payload requires asking the question of who and how the memory of such a payload is managed, and Zig the language never prescribes you into a particular answer to that question.
mark38848 · 6h ago
Yes also the function syntax is weird and ugly because functions aren't expressions.
nextaccountic · 1h ago
What do you mean? pun fn f() { } ? How is this weird
davidkunz · 17h ago
A little bit unrelated, but how do people deal with the abstinence of payloads in zig errors? For example, when parsing a JSON string, the error `UnexpectedToken` is not very helpful. Are libraries typically designed to accept an optional input to store potential errors?
quantummagic · 15h ago
The idiomatic way in Zig is to return the simple unadorned error, but return detailed error data through a pointer argument passed into the function, allowing the function to fill in extra information before returning an error.
The advantage of this is that everything is explicit, and it is up to the caller to arrange memory usage for error data; ie. the compiler does not trigger any implicit memory allocation to accommodate error returns. This is a fundamental element of Zig's design, that there are no hidden or implicit memory allocations
nextaccountic · 1h ago
> The advantage of this is that everything is explicit, and it is up to the caller to arrange memory usage for error data
Likewise, this has the disadvantage that the caller must allocate space for the error payload, even if the error is very unlikely
metaltyphoon · 12h ago
So… pretty much how C does it.
pjmlp · 2h ago
Zig is basically the safety of Modula-2, with a revamped C like syntax, which is why it feels too little for a 2025 language.
Naturally the comptime part is new, but I wouldn't pick a language only because of that.
quantummagic · 9h ago
The main difference is that C doesn't have error (result types) baked into the language. So the expectation would be in the Zig example above, the calling function would never even bother to inspect the error details, unless the error path was triggered by the called function.
dwattttt · 12h ago
Culture and coding standards count for a lot. C _can_ do this, but it's not normal to.
If Zig can foster a culture of handling errors this way, it'll be the way the community writ large handle errors.
mark38848 · 6h ago
It's still complete dogshit not to be able to have data there. Odin is much better here, iirc
dnautics · 15h ago
should be ?*ErrorInfo in the header there =D
quantummagic · 8h ago
Thanks. There are a few thinko/typoes in the example (which can no longer be edited), but the basic outline survived okay.
maleldil · 16h ago
> Are libraries typically designed to accept an optional input to store potential errors?
Yes. Stdlib's JSON module has a separate diagnostics object [1]. IMO, this is the weakest part of Zig's error handling story, although the reasons for this are understandable.
I'd like to note that std.json, as it currently stands, is not a good example of proper error handling. Unless you use that awkward lower level Scanner API, if you get a schema mismatch it reports some failure code and does not populate a diagnostics struct, which is painful and useless.
On the other hand the std.zon author did not make this mistake, i.e. `std.zon.parse.fromSlice` takes an optional Diagnostics struct which gives you all the information you need (including a handy format method for printing human readable messages).
dnautics · 15h ago
I presume sometime in the not-immediate-but-not-too-distant-future there is going to be a push to "unify" std with a bunch of the "best practices" and call them out in the documentation.
I wrote an article about one possible pattern which is a concrete realization of your question -- though with more ceremony and complexity since the pathway is fully compiled out if you don't use it (vs a nullable pointer strategy):
> Are libraries typically designed to accept an optional input to store potential errors?
The answer is no, libraries are not typically designed with a standardized convention for payload return.
davidkunz · 14h ago
Thank you all for these great and detailed explanations, I've learned a lot! I like the approach with an optional pointer, it fits to zig's philosophy quite well. Although there's a bit of a disconnect between the unadorned error and the corresponding data struct. I could imagine it requires care when the data struct is a union, as one needs to know which error corresponds to which variant.
hansvm · 16h ago
At a practical level, most of the language doesn't care about the distinction between errors and other types. You mostly just have to consider `try/catch/errdefer`. Your question then, mildly restated, is "how do people deal with cases where they want to use `try/catch/errdefer` but also want to return a payload?"
It's worth asking, at least a little, how often you want that in the first place.
Contrasting with Rust as an example, suppose you want Zig's "try" functionality with arbitrary payloads. Both functions need a compatible error type (a notable source of minor refactors bubbling into whole-project changes), or else you can accept a little more boilerplate and box everything with a library like `anyhow`. That's _fine_, but does it help you solve real problems? Opinions vary, but I think it mostly makes your life harder. You have stack unwinding available if you really need to see the source of a thing, and since the whole point of `try` is to bubble things up to callers who don't have the appropriate context to handle them, they likely don't really care about the metadata you're tacking on.
Suppose you want Zig's "catch" functionality with arbitrary payloads. That's just a `union` type. If you actually expect callers to inspect and care about the details of each possible return branch, you should provide a return type allowing them to do stuff with that information.
The odd duck out is `errdefer`. IMO it's reasonably common for libraries to want to do some sort of cleanup on "error" conditions, where that cleanup often doesn't depend on which error you hit, and you lose that functionality if you just return a union type. My usual workaround (in the few cases where I actually want that information returned and also have to do some sort of cleanup) is to have a private inner function and a public outer function. The inner function has some sort of `out` parameter where it sticks that unioned metadata. The outer function executes the code which might have to be cleaned up on errors, calls the inner function, and figures out what to do from there. Result location semantics make it as efficient as hand-rolled code for release builds. Not everything fits into that paradigm, but the exceptions are rare enough that the extra boilerplate really isn't bad on average (especially when comparing to an already very verbose language).
Depending on the API, your proposal of having a dedicated `out` parameter exposed further up the chain to callers might be appropriate. I'm sure somebody has done so.
Something I also do in a fair amount of my code is let the caller specify my return type, and I'll avoid work if they don't request a certain payload (e.g., not adding parse failure line numbers if not requested). It lets you write a reasonably generic API without a ton of code complexity, still allowing callers to get the information they want.
Ar-Curunir · 14h ago
> suppose you want Zig's "try" functionality with arbitrary payloads. Both functions need a compatible error type (a notable source of minor refactors bubbling into whole-project changes), or else you can accept a little more boilerplate and box everything with a library like `anyhow`. That's _fine_, but does it help you solve real problems? Opinions vary, but I think it mostly makes your life harder.
This is not true, you simply need to add a single new variant to the callers error type, and either a From impl or a manual conversion at the call site
hansvm · 12h ago
"compatible error type"
Which is prone to causing propagating changes if you're not comfortable slapping duck tape on every conversion.
dwattttt · 12h ago
It depends on whether people depend on the structure of the errors. If they just stringify them, that shouldn't result in changes.
If people are getting into the structure of the errors, they might need to update their code that works with them.
jmull · 16h ago
I think the idea is errors are for control flow. If you have other information to return from a function, you can just return it — whether directly as the return value or through an “out” parameter or setting it in some context.
etyp · 18h ago
This goes to show how Zig's language design makes everything look nicer and simpler - the `errdefer` patterns in tests are super nice! I've debugged my Zig tests with simple print debugging (or try to narrow it down to a standalone case I can use a debugger), but I'll certainly use some of these tricks in the future.
ijustlovemath · 18h ago
The website design is so pleasing, props!
brianzelip · 1h ago
Beautiful web site!
skrebbel · 17h ago
Wow, errdefer sounds like the kind of thing every language ought to have.
BradleyChatha · 56m ago
If I understand the feature correctly, D has this via scope(failure) [1]
```
void func()
{
scope(failure) writeln("Something went wrong!");
}
```
Is it significantly different than a try-catch block?
skrebbel · 4h ago
Yeah it lets you put code that goes in "catch" all over your function body, right next to where it's most relevant. It lets you go "hm but what about errors? ah handled! ok i can forget about it" when reading a function without having to skip back and forth between the main code and the catch block.
masklinn · 1h ago
> Yeah it lets you put code that goes in "catch" all over your function body, right next to where it's most relevant.
To be fair I’ve rarely seen that, usually you’ve got half the method in a giant try block and have fun untangling which errors are caught intentionally and which are side-effects.
jayd16 · 4h ago
But that's just try blocks around where it's relevant except the more precise scoping of a block and the catch being after where the errdefer is before.
ijustlovemath · 10h ago
one less level of indentation; reading down is happy path, seems nice!
jayd16 · 4h ago
Huh? But the exceptional behaviors are listed first?
Would you say we should move to catch-try syntax? Seems strange to me.
rkagerer · 17h ago
I love the formatting and coloring on this blog page, it's delightful to read. Like an old school DOS game.
sedatk · 16h ago
It felt like a man page to me :)
pyth0 · 13h ago
I think the "Manual page for glfmn.io" text at the bottom confirms that. And I agree with the GP, it's very pleasant to read and look at!
jiehong · 17h ago
Nice Font! (Berkeley Mono)
ww520 · 18h ago
These are excellent tips. I especially like the debugger integration in build.zig. I used to grep the cache directory to find the exe. The integration avoids all the extra steps.
yahoozoo · 16h ago
Cool stuff, but the mixed casings I see here (and have in other Zig code) puts me on edge (not literally but yeah). You’ve got `addSystemCommand` then a variable named `debug_step` which has a call `dependOn`. That said, looks like most of the stdlib stuff is camel case so the snake case variables are just the authors preference.
This post reminds me of one of Andrew's early talks about the type system and the comptime... With the core building blocks, we can achieve elegant solutions without adding unnecessary syntax complexity.
https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/2647
You have to workaround by things like passing into a pointer to error object.
Likewise, this has the disadvantage that the caller must allocate space for the error payload, even if the error is very unlikely
Naturally the comptime part is new, but I wouldn't pick a language only because of that.
If Zig can foster a culture of handling errors this way, it'll be the way the community writ large handle errors.
Yes. Stdlib's JSON module has a separate diagnostics object [1]. IMO, this is the weakest part of Zig's error handling story, although the reasons for this are understandable.
[1] https://ziglang.org/documentation/master/std/#std.json.Scann...
On the other hand the std.zon author did not make this mistake, i.e. `std.zon.parse.fromSlice` takes an optional Diagnostics struct which gives you all the information you need (including a handy format method for printing human readable messages).
> Are libraries typically designed to accept an optional input to store potential errors?
https://zig.news/ityonemo/sneaky-error-payloads-1aka
if you prefer video form:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFeqWWJP4LE
The answer is no, libraries are not typically designed with a standardized convention for payload return.
It's worth asking, at least a little, how often you want that in the first place.
Contrasting with Rust as an example, suppose you want Zig's "try" functionality with arbitrary payloads. Both functions need a compatible error type (a notable source of minor refactors bubbling into whole-project changes), or else you can accept a little more boilerplate and box everything with a library like `anyhow`. That's _fine_, but does it help you solve real problems? Opinions vary, but I think it mostly makes your life harder. You have stack unwinding available if you really need to see the source of a thing, and since the whole point of `try` is to bubble things up to callers who don't have the appropriate context to handle them, they likely don't really care about the metadata you're tacking on.
Suppose you want Zig's "catch" functionality with arbitrary payloads. That's just a `union` type. If you actually expect callers to inspect and care about the details of each possible return branch, you should provide a return type allowing them to do stuff with that information.
The odd duck out is `errdefer`. IMO it's reasonably common for libraries to want to do some sort of cleanup on "error" conditions, where that cleanup often doesn't depend on which error you hit, and you lose that functionality if you just return a union type. My usual workaround (in the few cases where I actually want that information returned and also have to do some sort of cleanup) is to have a private inner function and a public outer function. The inner function has some sort of `out` parameter where it sticks that unioned metadata. The outer function executes the code which might have to be cleaned up on errors, calls the inner function, and figures out what to do from there. Result location semantics make it as efficient as hand-rolled code for release builds. Not everything fits into that paradigm, but the exceptions are rare enough that the extra boilerplate really isn't bad on average (especially when comparing to an already very verbose language).
Depending on the API, your proposal of having a dedicated `out` parameter exposed further up the chain to callers might be appropriate. I'm sure somebody has done so.
Something I also do in a fair amount of my code is let the caller specify my return type, and I'll avoid work if they don't request a certain payload (e.g., not adding parse failure line numbers if not requested). It lets you write a reasonably generic API without a ton of code complexity, still allowing callers to get the information they want.
This is not true, you simply need to add a single new variant to the callers error type, and either a From impl or a manual conversion at the call site
Which is prone to causing propagating changes if you're not comfortable slapping duck tape on every conversion.
If people are getting into the structure of the errors, they might need to update their code that works with them.
``` void func() { scope(failure) writeln("Something went wrong!"); } ```
[1] https://tour.dlang.org/tour/en/gems/scope-guards
To be fair I’ve rarely seen that, usually you’ve got half the method in a giant try block and have fun untangling which errors are caught intentionally and which are side-effects.
Would you say we should move to catch-try syntax? Seems strange to me.