AWS claims their cloud is "sovereign" and "independent" while remaining owned by a US corp subject to US law (including the CLOUD Act). That's not how sovereignty works.
EU citizen operators don't change the fact that the underlying technology, patents, and corporate control remain American.
Zero details on pricing, available services, or how they'll handle conflicts between US law and their "sovereignty" promises. For something launching next year, that's concerning.
crazygringo · 3m ago
> That's not how sovereignty works.
Actually, it is. It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. And being staffed by Europeans means they are immune to any US legal threats. I.e. the US can't compel a European employee to reveal data under a subpoena the way it could compel American citizens.
Amazon remains the owner and controls the technology, yes. But as long as things are encrypted correctly and the hardware is in Europe, the data is secure from the US government. Sure Amazon or any cloud provider could build a back door, but that will eventually be discovered whether by hacker or whistleblower and their reputation will be forever ruined and they'll lose all corporate and government business forever.
tw04 · 10m ago
Don’t worry, their founder, majority shareholder, and executive chair has shown a truly righteous willingness to stand up to the current wannabe dictator leading the US government. A moral beacon we can all turn to in these troubling times. I’m sure it’ll be just fine.
wkat4242 · 14m ago
Yeah this is just window dressing. The NSA will still get their feeds whenever they want.
That said, being fully European doesn't guarantee anything either. They'll just bribe some employees or use an allied intelligence agency within the EU.
gitremote · 6m ago
"The Cloud Act is a law that gives the US government authority to obtain digital data held by US-based tech corporations irrespective of whether that data is stored on servers at home or on foreign soil. It is said to compel these companies, via warrant or subpoena, to accept the request."
At the moment that the thing is operated and owned by an US company, they are subject to the law and will of the US government and so obviously not sovereign.
I'm wondering if someone could sue them for "deceptive marketing statement" under European law.
Sadly a lot of company will pretend to believe the marketing of aws to have an excuse to use aws and pretend to be using a safe sovereign cloud.
Also, I have doubt that the European employees and entities with all access and review to source code, and everything. It will probably be European technician running black box servers in an European data center.
adamcharnock · 22m ago
This may be blindingly obvious, but I’m going to say it anyway: If Amazon was willing to actually give up control of AWS EU, then this kind of announcement would be entirely surplus to requirements. But they will (obviously and rationally) not be giving up control of AWS EU because that would essentially have to be an act of charity, so they need to dress it up a bit.
(Before hitting ‘add comment’ I’m taking a moment to consider if I’m being overly cynical. But no, I really don’t think I am. But my company does compete with AWS, so that is a bias.)
wkat4242 · 13m ago
Well it wouldn't have to be charity. They could just divest or sell it.
It would be a dumb move though because they need a worldwide CDN for customers from other countries outside the EU too.
tensor · 35m ago
But it's still ultimately supporting a US company. The world needs a diversity of companies not just subsidiaries of the same few US companies.
CamperBob2 · 32m ago
True. Someone should look into why all these companies tend to be started in the US, and not in the EU.
adamcharnock · 5m ago
I left a comment fairly related to this a while back:
But there _is_ also an attitude difference. In terms of willingness to take risks and innovate, the USA does do very well for itself, and I think the UK does ok too. But that cannot be said for the EU countries I’ve lived in. Stable reliable long term safe jobs seem to be more the name of the game, and starting a company is seen as a big and risky commitment. Whereas in the US and UK you can start a company in your lunch break.
It is a generalisation, and I’m part of a wonderful entrepreneurial community here in Munich. But even there everyone says how risk averse European businesses are. I really really wish it wasn’t true.
verelo · 29m ago
lol…try hire someone in Germany. You’ll get it in about 5 minutes.
Sincerely, someone in Canada who did this.
mschuster91 · 12m ago
Hiring someone in Germany is dead easy (assuming the candidate is an EU/EEA citizen - foreigners from outside the EU/EEA are a nightmare because the immigration authorities are swamped in cases). You hand the candidate a contract, ask for a few informations (e.g. tax identifier code, health insurance code) and your accountant (or, if larger, HR dep't) deals with the rest.
The problem is firing someone in Germany, which can be pretty difficult once a company exceeds 5/10 employees. You basically need either cause (e.g. sabotage, theft, other criminal activity) or the company needs to be in dire economic situations.
tensor · 27m ago
I think that's pretty straightforward. The US VC funding is far greater and easier to obtain than in Europe or other western nations. But it's a bit of a chicken and egg scenario. The US VC space exists partly because of the wild success of silicon valley. Once it got a significant lead it became a self re-enforcing system.
To compete, other countries need their own VC system which is a bit tricky. It requires likely a level of government funding or other incentives to get it off the ground and ramping up. Then also, you need to incentivize VCs to stay in your country.
At least my 2cents.
wkat4242 · 6m ago
I don't think we should have so much VC anyway. Most of that is just basically gambling. Most of these startups crash and burn. Here in Europe we frown on that, just like we frown on taking out loans and credit cards.
Here in Europe the best credit rating is for the person who's never needed a loan or credit before. It proves they're smart with money. But US citizens have to roll money between credit cards monthly.
The VC in the US mainly existed because interest was so low that money was easy to throw around and see if it stuck. That's no longer the case but these companies are from the time it was.
I don't think we should try to become another America. We don't want unconstrained ratrace capitalism here. And we can never out-US the US (even though China does manage to do that). We should just make alternatives in our own way. Solid with good foundations, play the game by our rules not someone else's.
nradov · 9m ago
They would also need to reform other rules such as bankruptcy.
ay · 18m ago
There’s a “EU Inc” initiative which is aiming to fix things. Fingers crossed.
Interestingly, the title refers to citizens but the body only refers to residents:
> the AWS European Sovereign Cloud is operated only by personnel who are European Union (EU) residents located in the EU, subject to EU law.
anon191928 · 45m ago
it also says this in article "we are adding EU citizenship to our hiring requirements "
blitzar · 24m ago
> subject to EU law
Always was. Its telling that they think that they were not previously subject to EU laws when their EU subsidiary did business with someone located in the EU.
mschuster91 · 11m ago
> Its telling that they think that they were not previously subject to EU laws when their EU subsidiary did business with someone located in the EU.
The key thing is, at the moment US staff can do admin actions (e.g. SSH into physical hosts). Under this new framework, they can't.
demarq · 9m ago
AWS should have never given an inch in this direction!
Appeasing a nationalists appetite is impossible.
fimdomeio · 32m ago
This sounds so weird. Is there a legal requirement for this?
Does this offer any type of real protection? Or is there a code of conduct that that intelligence agencies never hire people with foreign nationalities?
skgough · 23m ago
It sounds like a natural expansion of AWS GovCloud offerings to me. Servicing the US government and it's contractors has been very lucrative for AWS. Taking that successful model into new markets makes sense.
croes · 2m ago
They just forget to mention that the CLOUD Act makes sovereignty impossible as soon as anything of the service is owned or operated by a US company.
Actually, it is. It will operate as a subsidiary company based in Europe. That means it's 100% subject to European law, not American law. And being staffed by Europeans means they are immune to any US legal threats. I.e. the US can't compel a European employee to reveal data under a subpoena the way it could compel American citizens.
Amazon remains the owner and controls the technology, yes. But as long as things are encrypted correctly and the hardware is in Europe, the data is secure from the US government. Sure Amazon or any cloud provider could build a back door, but that will eventually be discovered whether by hacker or whistleblower and their reputation will be forever ruined and they'll lose all corporate and government business forever.
That said, being fully European doesn't guarantee anything either. They'll just bribe some employees or use an allied intelligence agency within the EU.
https://www.theregister.com/2025/07/25/microsoft_admits_it_c...
I'm wondering if someone could sue them for "deceptive marketing statement" under European law.
Sadly a lot of company will pretend to believe the marketing of aws to have an excuse to use aws and pretend to be using a safe sovereign cloud.
Also, I have doubt that the European employees and entities with all access and review to source code, and everything. It will probably be European technician running black box servers in an European data center.
(Before hitting ‘add comment’ I’m taking a moment to consider if I’m being overly cynical. But no, I really don’t think I am. But my company does compete with AWS, so that is a bias.)
It would be a dumb move though because they need a worldwide CDN for customers from other countries outside the EU too.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43465403
But there _is_ also an attitude difference. In terms of willingness to take risks and innovate, the USA does do very well for itself, and I think the UK does ok too. But that cannot be said for the EU countries I’ve lived in. Stable reliable long term safe jobs seem to be more the name of the game, and starting a company is seen as a big and risky commitment. Whereas in the US and UK you can start a company in your lunch break.
It is a generalisation, and I’m part of a wonderful entrepreneurial community here in Munich. But even there everyone says how risk averse European businesses are. I really really wish it wasn’t true.
Sincerely, someone in Canada who did this.
The problem is firing someone in Germany, which can be pretty difficult once a company exceeds 5/10 employees. You basically need either cause (e.g. sabotage, theft, other criminal activity) or the company needs to be in dire economic situations.
To compete, other countries need their own VC system which is a bit tricky. It requires likely a level of government funding or other incentives to get it off the ground and ramping up. Then also, you need to incentivize VCs to stay in your country.
At least my 2cents.
Here in Europe the best credit rating is for the person who's never needed a loan or credit before. It proves they're smart with money. But US citizens have to roll money between credit cards monthly.
The VC in the US mainly existed because interest was so low that money was easy to throw around and see if it stuck. That's no longer the case but these companies are from the time it was.
I don't think we should try to become another America. We don't want unconstrained ratrace capitalism here. And we can never out-US the US (even though China does manage to do that). We should just make alternatives in our own way. Solid with good foundations, play the game by our rules not someone else's.
https://www.eu-inc.org/
> the AWS European Sovereign Cloud is operated only by personnel who are European Union (EU) residents located in the EU, subject to EU law.
Always was. Its telling that they think that they were not previously subject to EU laws when their EU subsidiary did business with someone located in the EU.
The key thing is, at the moment US staff can do admin actions (e.g. SSH into physical hosts). Under this new framework, they can't.
Appeasing a nationalists appetite is impossible.