> Jin-su spent most of his time trying to secure fraudulent identities which he could use to apply for jobs. He would first pose as Chinese, and contact people in Hungary, Turkey and other countries to ask them to use their identity in exchange for a percentage of his earnings, he told the BBC.
"If you put an 'Asian face' on that profile, you'll never get a job."
He would then use those borrowed identities to approach people in Western Europe for their identities, which he'd use to apply for jobs in the US and Europe. Jin-su often found success targeting UK citizens.
"With a little bit of chat, people in the UK passed on their identities so easily," he said.
Interesting. I was under the impression that most large employers perform basic background checks on new employees?
ManuelKiessling · 45m ago
Over the past years I was approached multiple times with innocent sounding emails that clearly had the goal to use my identity in the way described here.
I‘ve always simply ignored these.
Is there a better way?
apwell23 · 2h ago
> basic background checks on new employees?
yes background check is done on UK person's identity and then Jin-su shows up to the job.
This is a happening a lot for regular tech jobs. Person who interviews and person who shows up for job are completely different ppl. we had to start taking screenshots of faces in interview so we can compare. This is happening big time.
miki123211 · 35m ago
And, at least as far as I've heard, those people often target small-ish companies, something like 20-100 employees. Large enough where you can stay unnoticed, small enough that you don't have strict policies and background checks.
baxtr · 2h ago
Ok makes sense. So only once you see his face in the interview you realize it’s not the UK person?
heelix · 38m ago
We've had people interview remarkably well, get hired, and when they showed up on the team - they did not know the stories/experiences they mentioned in the interview. Realized the person we screened was not the same that showed up to work. Back when we were doing a lot of hiring, this sort of scam worked.
forinti · 2h ago
But are they any good? I suppose they must be, as they seem to retain their jobs, but how do they rank overall?
Also, I tend to think that maintaining these interactions going might be a way to let more information into Naughty Korea and might actually have a positive influence in the long run.
kibwen · 1h ago
The risk is not the quality of the work that the person might do. The risk is that you now have a state-controlled North Korean asset operating inside your security perimeter.
vinceguidry · 48m ago
They're very good. They get training directly from the regime.
yapyap · 4h ago
Odd that he was sent abroad to do it, I always assumed they just did it from NK instead of abroad.
Also only having to give 85% to the regime seems pretty weird to me, it’d seem more logical to give 100% to the regime and have them provide the workers with a very cheap bed and food
tdeck · 2h ago
Every regime needs some way to encourage people other than "we'll kill you if you don't". Letting them keep 15% makes the work more attractive.
dlachausse · 4h ago
They probably hoped that the remaining 15% was just enough to keep the workers from defecting. That combined with the threat to brutally torture and kill their family that remained in North Korea were probably pretty effective motivators to stay loyal to the regime.
apwell23 · 2h ago
No. They don't need to worry about defections. Unless the guy really wants condemn his whole extended family and next 7 generations into labor camps.
throawaywpg · 1h ago
some NK do choose that option
tough · 2h ago
Its quite presumptuous to assume that
1. Every citizen will have ties or family to -think of-
2. The current regime (which is now on its third generation) will last 7 generations more.
3. You have any descendants at all
dh2022 · 21m ago
In Romania during the 70s and 80s the only people who would go to specialization/training in the West had spouse and kids that stayed behind. The punishment for defecting was that the defector would not see their wife/husband/kids ever again (well, it seemed to be for ever. Nobody expected the regime to crumble). AFAIK there were no labor camps in Romania.
With this in mind-I am quite sure NK is selecting the people win a similar fashion. I would not be surprised if the punishment for defection is more sinuster than just not seeing their spouse/kids ever again.
furyofantares · 1h ago
I admit this is a presumption, but I doubt they send people out without leverage of some sort.
tough · 23m ago
dictatorships are the worst. but true, even professional athlete's when travelling defect etc
dizhn · 4h ago
Maybe it's not so bad in North Korea? :)
deadbabe · 2h ago
It’s bad but not as bad as we’re made to believe, people still have lives worth living. They live, they laugh, they love. They do fun normal stuff, they have free thoughts, they have family.
dh2022 · 4m ago
Oh my God, you are so naive. Normal stuff in NK is watching your kids wasting away because of lack of calories (average North Korean is 10 inches shorter than average South Korean-even though 70nyears ago they were the same people genetically). Is living with a radio in your home that does not stop singing praise to the regime - neighbors will report you if they think you turned off the radio. If they have free thoughts they do not share these out of their family (and most likely hide them from their kids because kids talk unsupervised). I could go on for a page or so but I hope you get the idea.
klik99 · 17m ago
People will see kids laughing and playing in a war zone and think “it can’t be that bad, if it was that bad they’d be cowering in fear 24/7” - but people always find a way to live and find snippets of joy in even the worst situations
yapyap · 3h ago
lol.
deadbabe · 2h ago
perfect example of why you shouldn’t bother hiring these cheap offshore engineers.
you’re hiring an engineer thousands of miles away in another country for a fraction of the cost of an American engineer and you just assume they can be trusted with access to your most sensitive data and systems? And that they even are who they say they are and not just a frontman for some cabal?
miki123211 · 33m ago
They thought they were hiring American engineers, though.
The only way to prevent this is to do in-person only, but that's another can of worms.
jfengel · 1h ago
How trustworthy is that American?
You know that the North Korean is untrustworthy, but that's kind of a special case. Is a random American more trustworthy than a random Bangladeshi or Slovakian?
I suppose that you have a bit more ability to do background checks on US citizens. But those background checks aren't so great, either.
graemep · 1h ago
A random person in your own country is more trustworthy for two reasons.
1. background checks
2. more ability to meet face to face.
3. ability to go after them for wrongdoing (either civil cases or chances of getting the police to follow up on anything criminal.
horns4lyfe · 4h ago
Tech employers would of course rather pay the North Korean regime than hire Americans at competitive wages
crop_rotation · 3h ago
I doubt these North Koreans are getting hired due to wage disparities (these are roles supposed to be in the US where they have a contact person in the US), more like they have perfected the interview process as the most important thing in their life.
phendrenad2 · 2h ago
I got the impression from the article he was working with people in Turkey and Hungary to use their identities to get jobs in the UK and US. So US company found this amazing Hungarian dev who would work for 1/5 what an American would ask for, but they paid for it either way their privacy (hey wait a minute, sounds familiar...)
tough · 2h ago
there was recently this soham dude on SV/YC doing the rounds a few weeks ago
if all you do everyday is interview, you obviously get great at it
gscott · 1h ago
You do in some cases get a team of 10 North Koreans. Average ceo would fire 10 employees to every one NK employee, get some sort of bonus for reducing expenses, cry over the lost jobs on his new yacht while waving to Jeff.
"If you put an 'Asian face' on that profile, you'll never get a job." He would then use those borrowed identities to approach people in Western Europe for their identities, which he'd use to apply for jobs in the US and Europe. Jin-su often found success targeting UK citizens.
"With a little bit of chat, people in the UK passed on their identities so easily," he said.
Interesting. I was under the impression that most large employers perform basic background checks on new employees?
I‘ve always simply ignored these.
Is there a better way?
yes background check is done on UK person's identity and then Jin-su shows up to the job.
This is a happening a lot for regular tech jobs. Person who interviews and person who shows up for job are completely different ppl. we had to start taking screenshots of faces in interview so we can compare. This is happening big time.
Also, I tend to think that maintaining these interactions going might be a way to let more information into Naughty Korea and might actually have a positive influence in the long run.
Also only having to give 85% to the regime seems pretty weird to me, it’d seem more logical to give 100% to the regime and have them provide the workers with a very cheap bed and food
1. Every citizen will have ties or family to -think of- 2. The current regime (which is now on its third generation) will last 7 generations more. 3. You have any descendants at all
With this in mind-I am quite sure NK is selecting the people win a similar fashion. I would not be surprised if the punishment for defection is more sinuster than just not seeing their spouse/kids ever again.
you’re hiring an engineer thousands of miles away in another country for a fraction of the cost of an American engineer and you just assume they can be trusted with access to your most sensitive data and systems? And that they even are who they say they are and not just a frontman for some cabal?
The only way to prevent this is to do in-person only, but that's another can of worms.
You know that the North Korean is untrustworthy, but that's kind of a special case. Is a random American more trustworthy than a random Bangladeshi or Slovakian?
I suppose that you have a bit more ability to do background checks on US citizens. But those background checks aren't so great, either.
1. background checks 2. more ability to meet face to face. 3. ability to go after them for wrongdoing (either civil cases or chances of getting the police to follow up on anything criminal.
if all you do everyday is interview, you obviously get great at it