Open question: if a bartender greets you with a compliment and a wink, and then proceeds to sell you a cocktail, is it a dark pattern?
zamadatix · 1h ago
"Dark pattern" is specific to digital user interfaces, the bartender use case might be just called emotional marketing or, more plainly, flattery.
Keep in mind, digital or not, not all forms of negatively viewed tactics hold the same weight. E.g. a nagging confirmation for cancellation is typically viewed less negatively than confirm shaming, even though both are often listed as types of dark patterns. The type of coercion in the bartender example is likely towards the less negative side of manipulative tactics in most people's minds.
cwmoore · 1h ago
Dimly lit
altruios · 4h ago
I agree that all of these are dark patterns that have been folded into most websites.
We should not implement these patterns, or allow them to be implemented unchallenged.
anonu · 2h ago
I appreciate the dark pattern enumeration here - but, as an American, I find it strange that the Australian Government needs to get involved with this PSA.
cjs_ac · 1h ago
Australia has infamously robust consumer protection laws. Because of the high cost of running a business in Australia, especially one that involves physical goods, Australians are buying ever more things from overseas over the Internet, which means more exposure to retailers and subscription services that have no Australian presence and therefore can't be subjected to Australian law.
Australian governments also take a very paternalistic approach to dealing with their citizens. This stems from Australia's history as a set of penal colonies.
Esophagus4 · 2h ago
As a fellow American, wouldn’t it be similar to the FDA putting out a PSA about what baby formula should be avoided?[1] Or warning of the dangers of benzone contamination in sunscreen?[2] Or the CFPB putting out a PSA on responsible credit card practices?
Seems like we have government PSAs too if I’m understanding the comment correctly.
Nothing about this is regional to Australia. Every government should put out this kind of PSA. Dark patterns make everything worse in the long term for short term gain.
aiisahik · 2h ago
Australia is a nanny state. They will attempt to regulate these dark patterns next.
altruios · 1h ago
GOOD!
These NEED to be regulated HEAVILY.
Dark patterns make everything worse, there is no valid reason to use them. NONE.
Short term gains from such patterns do not offset the harms these patterns cause.
yapyap · 2h ago
and that would be bad?
fph · 1h ago
Right; if they want to get involved, they should go all the way and start fining the hell out of them.
Keep in mind, digital or not, not all forms of negatively viewed tactics hold the same weight. E.g. a nagging confirmation for cancellation is typically viewed less negatively than confirm shaming, even though both are often listed as types of dark patterns. The type of coercion in the bartender example is likely towards the less negative side of manipulative tactics in most people's minds.
We should not implement these patterns, or allow them to be implemented unchallenged.
Australian governments also take a very paternalistic approach to dealing with their citizens. This stems from Australia's history as a set of penal colonies.
Seems like we have government PSAs too if I’m understanding the comment correctly.
[1] https://www.fda.gov/food/alerts-advisories-safety-informatio...
[2] https://www.fda.gov/drugs/understanding-over-counter-medicin...
These NEED to be regulated HEAVILY.
Dark patterns make everything worse, there is no valid reason to use them. NONE.
Short term gains from such patterns do not offset the harms these patterns cause.