I still cant believe Java is 30. I had to double check on wiki and it really is. Year 2000 is 25 years ago, so yes. Java really is 30.
Sometimes I felt it was only a few years ago I was working with Java Native compile using GCJ.
pjmlp · 1d ago
Indeed, on my bubble it is either Java or .NET languages, with a bit of C++ for native integrations, and Typescript for anything Web,
Whatever is tredding on HN is pretty much ignored most of the time.
tonyhart7 · 1d ago
Yeah but more and more project would get written in another language (Go,Rust etc) that would dominate next 20-50 years when this language would become "legacy"
if we talk about enterprise legacy, I mean hell I bet there are Cobol system out there still running, the programmer who created it has been retired but company still decide to run it for legacy reason
AtlasBarfed · 1d ago
Llms should be ushering in an era where writing any halfway decent code in a mainstream language should then enable porting that code to virtually all other languages while maximizing the standard library or language features.
Alas chathippityi can't even port something as enduring, test exampled, source available, and well documented as SED.
There is a little bit of depth to something like that, but it should be well in the wheelhouse of the claim capabilities of llms. Alas, I get nothing but the most superficial of flag capabilities and sed capabilities.
Effective porting should be a prime capability, because in general I would consider that to be breadth-based knowledge Rather than involve deep language knowledge.
There was a wiki style sit, I believe it's called Rosetta or Rosetta Stone that attempts to do this before the age of llms. And really that should be the low-hanging fruit for some stage of llm maturity that it can do that and renders that site obsolete.
I'd love to hear opinions to the contrary, but it appears we are pretty far from that
anonzzzies · 1d ago
(From the article that LAMP programmers are gone or whatever) Most of the dynamic web runs on php: maybe not LAMP, but we are talking about Java, a programming language vs PHP, another programming language.
I was a full time java programmer since the first available version doing applets and servlets etc going for money, and that worked, we made a lot of it. I left Lisp and Prolog to go to java, and yeah, I am sorry for it. I am in a different time of my life, I like to think I would never do that with what I know now 'just for money' as it is definitely not fun for me. I try it once in a while, but SBCL is fast and actually faster for most things we care about. And SO much more fun. To me anyway.
omer9 · 1d ago
COBOL is the big daddy....
dzonga · 1d ago
if you spend time on HN n on twitter - you would think LLMs are taking over. Next.js / tRPC whatever is running every backend - but then you realize it's just tech bros making noise.
I don't like java - but you gotta admire the staying power - virtually every corporation runs on it or a flavor of it for the more advanced startups running at scale.
for any backend running at scale - nothing touches JVM. n yeah LLMs ain't making a dent for AbstractFactoryBuilderClass thingies in java or the inverted inventor principles Java Architect Astronauts like to do.
fidotron · 1d ago
It's legitimately scary how much oxygen Next.js has taken out of the room. If you do anything remotely related to selling to developers you absolutely have to participate in that ecosystem or you won't sell anything, and this contributes to the noise. Vercel have become an insanely powerful company, and are to front end what Hashicorp were a decade ago to cloud computing.
By now Java people already have their licensing agreements. They aren't going to be buying anything new.
anonzzzies · 1d ago
Hmm, any info on that? I cannot say I ever see nexjs in the enteprise over here. Reactjs sure, but nextjs. Most find it ok that react is meta which is one of biggest companies in the world vs Vercel their MBA ctos never heard off.
pjmlp · 1d ago
See any enterprise class product like SaaS SDKs for CMS, ecommerce, DAMs, most of them are Next.js based and have agreements in place with Vercel.
Sometimes I felt it was only a few years ago I was working with Java Native compile using GCJ.
Whatever is tredding on HN is pretty much ignored most of the time.
if we talk about enterprise legacy, I mean hell I bet there are Cobol system out there still running, the programmer who created it has been retired but company still decide to run it for legacy reason
Alas chathippityi can't even port something as enduring, test exampled, source available, and well documented as SED.
There is a little bit of depth to something like that, but it should be well in the wheelhouse of the claim capabilities of llms. Alas, I get nothing but the most superficial of flag capabilities and sed capabilities.
Effective porting should be a prime capability, because in general I would consider that to be breadth-based knowledge Rather than involve deep language knowledge.
There was a wiki style sit, I believe it's called Rosetta or Rosetta Stone that attempts to do this before the age of llms. And really that should be the low-hanging fruit for some stage of llm maturity that it can do that and renders that site obsolete.
I'd love to hear opinions to the contrary, but it appears we are pretty far from that
I was a full time java programmer since the first available version doing applets and servlets etc going for money, and that worked, we made a lot of it. I left Lisp and Prolog to go to java, and yeah, I am sorry for it. I am in a different time of my life, I like to think I would never do that with what I know now 'just for money' as it is definitely not fun for me. I try it once in a while, but SBCL is fast and actually faster for most things we care about. And SO much more fun. To me anyway.
I don't like java - but you gotta admire the staying power - virtually every corporation runs on it or a flavor of it for the more advanced startups running at scale.
for any backend running at scale - nothing touches JVM. n yeah LLMs ain't making a dent for AbstractFactoryBuilderClass thingies in java or the inverted inventor principles Java Architect Astronauts like to do.
By now Java people already have their licensing agreements. They aren't going to be buying anything new.