Amazon's policy on not taking returns for food items can be very frustrating, especially combined with leaving packages on the doorstep without informing you.
I've had food items in broken glass jars left on my doorstep, and Amazon refuse to do anything about it. They also follow that pattern of making it hard to reach an actual customer service person, instead trying to send you in an endless loop of FAQ pages.
Needless to say, I no longer use Amazon for food items.
poplwang · 15h ago
Interesting - I've actually had the opposite experience (granted, this was in Canada)
Ordered a fancy honey twice, and both times it arrived in a broken glass jar. When I asked for a refund with the reason "item arrived damaged", it instantly went through both times without question.
Maybe a regional thing? Or perhaps more lenience for long time customers/Prime members?
5123125 · 14h ago
Shouldn't that be reported under "Item arvived broken" ? In this case it is not a return item but they should just refund.
gavinray · 14h ago
Almost half of my food comes from Amazon and I constantly return damaged items...
Symbiote · 13h ago
That sounds like a lot of hassle. Why do you continue to order from Amazon?
gavinray · 13h ago
It's just a volume thing.
If you order a household's worth of food constantly, some items are bound to be damaged.
Usually, it's energy drinks that get partially crushed during transit. Not a big deal, and I'd still rather order online and return every now and then, than have to drive to the store.
lynx97 · 15h ago
Me neither. I only ordered Pesto once, and it arrived in two broken glasses. As a personal anecdote, that was sufficient for me to never try ordering food items from Amazon again.
AStonesThrow · 12h ago
Once I ordered a case full of fresh organic juice. It was packaged in 32oz glass bottles. I believe that for that order, I went direct to the grocery vendor. So it probably came from a fairly local warehouse. It was delivered to the local USPS station. Rather than deliver it to my residence, the "letter carrier" left a slip for me to go fetch it from the station. When I approached the counter, the clerk said "Oh no, it broke apart and spilled all over our floor. It's a huge mess."
Now what I should've said is, "I'll take the sticky gooey remainder" because I 100% guarantee you that after I refused delivery and abandoned the package, they opened up the intact bottles and had a party with the remainder of the cargo! How often do they get to enjoy a pirate's booty like that?
consp · 15h ago
Amazon drops shipment, says you accepted it and calls it a day. Tale as old as time. You can replace Amazon by any shipping company. Good luck fighting it if you lose it or never wanted to accept it in the first place.
chrischen · 15h ago
Actually these things usually pretty customer-sided. Obviously if you ask Amazon they will say you got it, but if you side-step them and they didn't get a signature it becomes hard for them to defend. They usually skip signature confirmation and leave it at doorstep because 95% of the time it's what the customer wants and works.
That's why for anything more expensive they will get a signature, and ebay requires signatures on high priced items, because the 5% risk at that price point is no longer acceptable.
jjcob · 14h ago
The delivery documentation is often a lie. Like, there might be a "signature", but it was just the delivery guy scribbling something. Very hard to prove that wasn't you.
The delivery workers just don't get paid enough money to bother doing it correctly.
mingus88 · 10h ago
It’s worse than that; they will be punished for slowing down to do the right thing. The system encourages bad behavior.
Amazon has been my last resort for items going back a few years now. I am fine paying a bit more, waiting a few more days, or having to go out of my way to pick something up.
Life was fine before Amazon. In many ways it was better. We need to remind them of this.
5123125 · 14h ago
No one is going to be home at 10AM on a weekday to wait for a delivery. Online e-commerce is worse experience than traditional retails if you start requiring people to sign for every shipment.
senectus1 · 15h ago
lol the things were called "Dum-Dums"
Parents letting their kids access an amazon account with CC details saved definitely fits that description.
supermatt · 15h ago
That wouldn't be a problem in the EU. Children are not able to consent to a contract.
That amazon assume that it is the adult authorising the transaction is a decision made by amazon to facilitate purchase. i.e. it is Amazons problem, not the parents.
I'd guess the number of contested transactions are sufficiently low that amazon generally doesn't care to enforce additional authentication to reduce the likelihood of unauthorised purchases.
pain2022 · 15h ago
How is a website owner is supposed to verify that it’s an adult or a kid pressing ‘buy’ button while being logged into an account with adult’s details?
sfifs · 14h ago
If it's a 4200 dollar purchase, shouldn't there be purchase verification like 3DS?
numpad0 · 14h ago
Consumer protection laws assume that big guys can amortize pains and suck it up. They are just built unfair to counteract the already unfair power gradient between individuals and businesses.
supermatt · 15h ago
By not considering the ability to click a "buy" button as sufficient authentication?
Amazon do this because it makes it frictionless for the legitimate consumer - but at risk of letting through unauthorised transactions.
jmb99 · 14h ago
What is the alternative? Have a video call with anyone wanting to make an online purchase? What about deepfakes? It’s effectively impossible to determine that the person clicking “Buy” is not an adult, especially if that person is using the account of an adult with permission.
whstl · 14h ago
> What is the alternative?
Asking for a CC, password, fingerprint/passkey, authenticator, email confirmation?
jmb99 · 12h ago
If the CC is stored in autofill, as is the password, and the child has access to the device (presumably through biometrics), then none of those prove an adult clicked “Buy.”
whstl · 11h ago
Still, there is no need to throw the baby with the bathwater.
If you’re claiming that no security is possible, might as well allow anyone to login on any account.
Alternatives DO exist.
supermatt · 14h ago
And even then, you are still protected by law if it is a child that makes the purchase.
bmacho · 15h ago
I'm pretty sure that it is possible click and buy in the EU.
Symbiote · 14h ago
I'm not willing to test in (I don't buy from Amazon) but almost all the time when ordering online from Denmark, I have to authorize the transaction with the second factor — phone app or TOTP key etc.
This applies even when I'm a repeat customer.
Freak_NL · 14h ago
It depends on the payment method, but for Amazon for me that means either using the Dutch Ideal system which means I have to use my bank's authenticator (which takes my debit card and asks for a PIN) or my bank's app (PIN plus unlocking my smartphone) to approve the transaction, or to get asked for my credit card's 3dsecure password and (often) a confirmation code sent by text (again requiring unlocking my smartphone).
There is no way to just click 'buy' and have it delivered. Only AliExpress does that for me. Perhaps this is possible in the EU with Amazon Prime? All Dutch online shops use Ideal, so accidentally ordering something there is just not possible unless you give your kid access to your smartphone and PIN.
BrandoElFollito · 2h ago
Yes it is, at least in France. I do it all the time with Amazon
PhilipRoman · 7h ago
It is and I would love to know when exactly that is the case. Normally all my online payments require 2FA, but some companies can apparently just transfer my money automatically. I'm guessing they need some kind of agreement with the bank, as otherwise 2FA would be pointless.
BrandoElFollito · 2h ago
Exactly this. Some vendors such as Amazon have agreements with SWIFT providers to bypass 2FA.
This comes with extra liability but this is part of their risk and costs.
supermatt · 14h ago
It is, yeah. But it’s not legally binding if a child misuses that mechanism.
drcongo · 14h ago
Nobody is saying it isn't. Parent was saying the burden is on Amazon because they're allowing this to happen without further verification - so in the EU Amazon wouldn't be able to enforce a "you bought it, you're stuck with it".
johnisgood · 14h ago
I do not think unauthorised transactions are much of an issue, and as an other commented asked: what would be the alternative? Come on now.
The solution (that many people do not want to hear) is very simple: supervise your kid, be a parent.
Edit: I love getting down-voted for saying "be a parent". Laughable. We are on HN and you do not know how to prevent this from occurring? Read the other comments, there are lots of suggestions. You have absolutely no excuse.
dotancohen · 14h ago
Or just log out of your accounts when your not using them. Seriously, I do believe that I'm the only person I know who uses the Logout functionality of websites.
Or let your kids use a different user account on the computer.
johnisgood · 14h ago
There are so many ways to prevent this, we would probably be here all day if we started listing them. There is a thread with such ways.
throw347897823 · 14h ago
That would not work in EU. Every EULA has a clause that you are required to secure your device. So as parent you would have two options:
- get a police a record that your identity was stolen, rat out your children for identity theft, and maybe risk they get criminal record.
- claim you had control over your device, and they ordered that under your supervision, but argue some dark paterns from amazon.
supermatt · 14h ago
> That would not work in EU. Every EULA has a clause that you are required to secure your device
In the EU, an EULA does not override statutory rights - especially in cases involving minors, lack of legal capacity or unauthorised transactions.
> rat out your children for identity theft, and maybe risk they get criminal record.
A child cannot commit identity theft because they lack the criminal capacity.
jessekv · 14h ago
It's a rabbit hole, but I agree mainly because 3DS would have been triggered in the EU.
Not necessarily. I do not have 2FA when ordering from Amazon in France.
jmclnx · 9h ago
She is a better person than me. I would call my credit card company and dispute the purchase. I very much doubt the child's name is on the Cred Card used. That means it was illegal use of a Credit/Debit Card.
As others said, in the EU this would be against the law, we need laws like this in the US.
readthenotes1 · 7h ago
So we need another law for something already illegal? I don't follow the logic.
jmclnx · 4h ago
>That wouldn't be a problem in the EU. Children are not able to consent to a contract.
Above from a comment by supermatt
This is much different than not having your name on the Credit/Debit Card. The EU law deals with contracts per responses in the responses.
I could have been clearer, but the speed at which posts are getting flagged here, I have been rushing all my responses :)
beAbU · 10h ago
> Since then, she has occasionally let him browse the site if he keeps the items in the cart.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
SamvitJ · 15h ago
"Accidentally"
cliffly · 15h ago
> He told his mother he wanted to organize a carnival for his friends, and mistakenly, he said, he placed an order for almost 70,000 pieces of the candy instead of reserving it.
That's his version and he's sticking with it
fergie · 15h ago
LOL(lipop)
pjc50 · 15h ago
The physical version of a more common problem described in the article: kids making big virtual purchases without their parents realizing. It's very difficult to prevent even with helicopter parenting.
chneu · 15h ago
Lol no it isn't. Stop linking your account to smart devices and stop enabling one click ordering. Never give a child access to a credit card without preset spending limits.
You're trading convenience for the likelihood of these things happening. That's a CHOICE.
HPsquared · 14h ago
It's not usually an informed, conscious choice.
There is a massive advertising complex constantly nudging the parents in that direction.
dotancohen · 14h ago
What advertisement have you ever seen that said "don't log out of your website accounts, and additionally don't have separate computer accounts for your children's use"?
HPsquared · 14h ago
There's a lot of nudging to log in and enable stuff to facilitate impulse buys. Even little things like when you log in, it stays logged on afterwards.
lynx97 · 15h ago
Wha? Whats difficult about not giving your child unsupervised access to your credit card? Thats pretty plain negligence. I need to keep saying this, apparently: What about modern parents actually get their shit together and do some actual parenting? Either society is blamed (see social networks) or the system is blamed for their failure to take care of their children.
BobaFloutist · 6h ago
How do you prevent a sufficiently motivated teenager from stealing a credit card out of your wallet while you're asleep?
I know someone who legitimately has to stash their wallet under their pillow at night.
It's very easy to judge from a distance, but kids are smart and people usually aren't prepared to or in the habit of being that defensive inside their own home.
chneu · 13h ago
Omg don't you understand how overworked parents are nowadays? They don't have the time or energy to pay attention to their children.
Gosh, how insensitive of you.
lynx97 · 12h ago
> don't have the time or energy to pay attention to their children
Oh, thats such a valid excuse. Maybe these people shouldn't have any children then?
echoangle · 15h ago
How is that difficult? Only log into your accounts that make purchases on personal devices that you don’t give to your kids. Have dedicated devices for your child (good because you can lock it down more) or have a shared family device.
pain2022 · 15h ago
Why is it difficult to give a kid their own device (or an account on shared device), and don’t enter parent’s credit card details there?
jmb99 · 14h ago
It’s incredibly easy - a kid can’t have a credit card or a bank account, so don’t give them yours. The end, they can’t make purchases without your knowledge.
ChymeraXYZ · 15h ago
No... No, it's not. Just require password/confirmation for every purchase. I have 3 kids and not a single one has purchased anything without me approving it (where they did not pay with their own pocket money).
globular-toast · 15h ago
Like other commenters I'm surprised by this. Could you expand on why that's difficult with your particular setup?
I've had food items in broken glass jars left on my doorstep, and Amazon refuse to do anything about it. They also follow that pattern of making it hard to reach an actual customer service person, instead trying to send you in an endless loop of FAQ pages.
Needless to say, I no longer use Amazon for food items.
If you order a household's worth of food constantly, some items are bound to be damaged.
Usually, it's energy drinks that get partially crushed during transit. Not a big deal, and I'd still rather order online and return every now and then, than have to drive to the store.
Now what I should've said is, "I'll take the sticky gooey remainder" because I 100% guarantee you that after I refused delivery and abandoned the package, they opened up the intact bottles and had a party with the remainder of the cargo! How often do they get to enjoy a pirate's booty like that?
That's why for anything more expensive they will get a signature, and ebay requires signatures on high priced items, because the 5% risk at that price point is no longer acceptable.
The delivery workers just don't get paid enough money to bother doing it correctly.
Amazon has been my last resort for items going back a few years now. I am fine paying a bit more, waiting a few more days, or having to go out of my way to pick something up.
Life was fine before Amazon. In many ways it was better. We need to remind them of this.
Parents letting their kids access an amazon account with CC details saved definitely fits that description.
That amazon assume that it is the adult authorising the transaction is a decision made by amazon to facilitate purchase. i.e. it is Amazons problem, not the parents.
I'd guess the number of contested transactions are sufficiently low that amazon generally doesn't care to enforce additional authentication to reduce the likelihood of unauthorised purchases.
Amazon do this because it makes it frictionless for the legitimate consumer - but at risk of letting through unauthorised transactions.
Asking for a CC, password, fingerprint/passkey, authenticator, email confirmation?
If you’re claiming that no security is possible, might as well allow anyone to login on any account.
Alternatives DO exist.
This applies even when I'm a repeat customer.
There is no way to just click 'buy' and have it delivered. Only AliExpress does that for me. Perhaps this is possible in the EU with Amazon Prime? All Dutch online shops use Ideal, so accidentally ordering something there is just not possible unless you give your kid access to your smartphone and PIN.
This comes with extra liability but this is part of their risk and costs.
The solution (that many people do not want to hear) is very simple: supervise your kid, be a parent.
Edit: I love getting down-voted for saying "be a parent". Laughable. We are on HN and you do not know how to prevent this from occurring? Read the other comments, there are lots of suggestions. You have absolutely no excuse.
Or let your kids use a different user account on the computer.
- get a police a record that your identity was stolen, rat out your children for identity theft, and maybe risk they get criminal record.
- claim you had control over your device, and they ordered that under your supervision, but argue some dark paterns from amazon.
In the EU, an EULA does not override statutory rights - especially in cases involving minors, lack of legal capacity or unauthorised transactions.
> rat out your children for identity theft, and maybe risk they get criminal record.
A child cannot commit identity theft because they lack the criminal capacity.
https://docs.stripe.com/payments/3d-secure
As others said, in the EU this would be against the law, we need laws like this in the US.
Above from a comment by supermatt
This is much different than not having your name on the Credit/Debit Card. The EU law deals with contracts per responses in the responses.
I could have been clearer, but the speed at which posts are getting flagged here, I have been rushing all my responses :)
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
That's his version and he's sticking with it
You're trading convenience for the likelihood of these things happening. That's a CHOICE.
There is a massive advertising complex constantly nudging the parents in that direction.
I know someone who legitimately has to stash their wallet under their pillow at night.
It's very easy to judge from a distance, but kids are smart and people usually aren't prepared to or in the habit of being that defensive inside their own home.
Gosh, how insensitive of you.
Oh, thats such a valid excuse. Maybe these people shouldn't have any children then?
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