I disagree. Boring work needs meaning, not tension. Some times boring, done consistently, is where the truly great things come from.
Tension is, imo, ephemeral. If you keep chasing it, you are chasing dopamine loops. Little good comes from this.
But meaning is different. When you can remind yourself a truly great "why" you are doing something, can re-frame it, it can help.
Most importantly, boredom, irritation, and anxiety are temporary. They are emotions. They do not define us or the work. It was a joy when I realized that all these emotions will pass. They really do. You can sit with it. You really can. You can't make it go away, but it will pass.
CobrastanJorji · 31m ago
I think that "Boring work needs meaning, not tension" is a great explanation of bad bosses.
Any work will go a little faster when your boss puts an arbitrary deadline on it and screams "We need this by Friday, we're gonna tell the VP that it's late and it's your fault!!" But it's hugely demoralizing and stressful.
But if you say "this work will get the client's hospital equipment monitoring suite out sooner; if it works reliably, they'll be able to deploy it sooner, and it'll save the lives of some sick kids," then that'll also get the work done a little faster, and it'll make you feel good about doing it.
Arbitrary tension is a patch that you put on work that has no meaning. "We want you to go faster because it will make our metrics go up which might raise the stock a few percentage which might make our investors a few extra millions" has no meaning, which is the root problem.
treve · 1h ago
Different people are motivated differently. My work is meaningful but it's not enough to feel like I'm having fun every day. Some dopamine is basically critical for me to function. It's always a bit wild when people feel they can generalize their own experience and assume it must be the case for everyone else. This needs more I statements.
patates · 1h ago
> Some times boring, done consistently, is where the truly great things come from.
I used to tell myself the same thing. Then one day, a customer misconfigured their NetScaler, and all hell broke loose. We had half-delivered CSS files, misfiring form handlers, random blank screens of death, and a buggy front-end library that would bombard the backend with requests if it received the wrong status code with no back-off logic! There were hundreds of bug reports. You name it, we had it.
Debugging everything was just wild, especially with the constant tension of "What if it's our fault?" In the end, it wasn't! We got paid for our time, and we were able to close a massive number of tickets. It was one of the best weeks of my professional life.
em-bee · 8m ago
i too strive in such a situation, but it still makes a difference whether the work is meaningful or not. especially when you get to sleepless nights. it makes difference if that customer is a hospital or some other meaningful industry, or it is something meaningless like an online game, other entertainment or worse, gambling. i wouldn't work overtime for the latter (unless the pay is worth it or the team is good)
i can definitely confirm that meaningless work is more boring.
brailsafe · 38m ago
Hell yes, sometimes fighting a figurative wildfire successfully is what carries you for a year
brailsafe · 33m ago
> Tension is, imo, ephemeral. If you keep chasing it, you are chasing dopamine loops. Little good comes from this.
A lot of bad can come from this, especially if you're working on farming these loops from others and that's where you get your kick/money. But if there's no dopamine loop, ideally in addition to having some meaning, then there's just burnout.
> But meaning is different. When you can remind yourself a truly great "why" you are doing something, can re-frame it, it can help.
Ya, but it's easy to get too caught up in meaning. Meaningful meaning is scarce, and it's a bit naive to couple your paycheck to it. Most times work is just work and it needs to keep going as long as you need money. Meaning is fleeting by comparison, even for nurses and people actually doing something useful for society. When you can get it, great, but when you can't, don't go quitting your job impulsively, not in this market.
jm__87 · 48m ago
Personally, I find how I spend my time outside of work has a big impact on how motivated and productive I am at work, regardless of how meaningful my work tasks are. Obviously basic things like sleep, diet, exercise are important, but I have also found that spending too much time on things like video games, streaming shows/movies or social media really leaves me feeling depleted and unfocused during work hours. The more I avoid screens outside of work hours, the more productive I am during work hours when I have to look at a screen.
datadrivenangel · 3h ago
Unless you work on a dysfunctional team and any non-tracked work is forbidden, and any work you try and get tracked requires 6 pages of justification and takes 10 weeks to get prioritized enough for someone to work on...
ramon156 · 2h ago
My team isnt dysfunctional but I always get hit on the head for doing work and not making a ticket. I don't get it, if I see something bad I'm not going to search which ticket would best fit this issue. Just reviw my PR !
Also, so far most of our projects start simple but end in chaos and deadlines on the minute. I feel like we could always do better.
DJBunnies · 2h ago
It takes like two seconds to write a ticket and then tag your commits with it.
You get credit for fixing the issue, avoid giant fix-along-the-way PRs, and future credit for people (maybe even you) understanding why you those changes were made.
datadrivenangel · 2h ago
Except then you can get your wrist slapped for starting work on a ticket without prioritization. A rigid enough process slowly kills everything.
dakiol · 2h ago
But then if you cannot work on a ticket because of prio, you cannot either work without a ticket, isn't it? I thought the point here was doing work with or without a ticket.
wavemode · 1h ago
Without a ticket, the only people who see that you're working on that thing are the engineers reviewing your code. At many companies, this creates a lot less friction.
To put it a different way: it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. Creating a ticket is like asking permission (as the project managers will see the ticket and start asking questions about why time is being spent on low-priority things). Just going ahead and pushing code is asking forgiveness - sure, someone might notice after the fact that you did some work that you weren't assigned to do, but by that point it will be considered irrelevant, as long as your other responsibilities were handled on-time.
If you've never worked at a company where these political games are necessary - count your lucky stars!
lucketone · 20m ago
Still…
The adult thing (hard but responsible) to do, is to create a ticket, then allocate time for feelings of the manager.
(including cost-benefit ratio comparison between “this dealing with the manager” vs “fixed thing” might be tempting)
data-ottawa · 2h ago
I use MCP for this now.
A crappy form filled ticket by an AI is slightly better than no ticket.
schneems · 2h ago
I’ve been on both sides of this equation. If someone is dinging you for doing extra work, it could be a sign that your priorities are not aligned.
Like, if you’ve got a tight deadline coming up, it’s not the time to spend a week making CI slightly faster. On the other hand, if someone is telling you to not do work (right now), then they also need to help be responsible for finding time to do that work and understanding the impacts of that work never gets done.
I explain this to people as the tension between important urgent work. Some work is important but never（rarely) urgent. And if you ignore important work (like maintenance) it might become urgent at a very bad time.
datadrivenangel · 2h ago
Also there is value in having an audit trail of who did what when and why, both for operations and system evolution, and for all the compliance junk. Not so much value that a tiny bit of cleanup needs a huge amount of overhead though.
serial_dev · 1h ago
If you want a trail, there is already the PR. It has description that explains why the change makes sense, code changes, reviewers, if relevant screenshots and videos.
If you want small PRs that contain one meaningful, easy to review change, and that change only concerns the development team, there is no reason to create a ticket for the sake of creating a ticket.
Also, in some dysfunctional teams creating a ticket means it requires prioritization and you will most likely never work on it and ticket will be deleted five years from today when nobody you know with at the company anymore.
Believe me, no sane CFO (or include any person not in the dev team or product team) will look up your Jira ticket explaining why you wanted to refactor the GitHub actions because you had to update 10 files whenever there’s is a new version of a tool used in your pipeline.
Also, usually these changes are so small and straightforward, arguing about putting it in a ticket takes longer than reviewing it and merging it.
marcosdumay · 1h ago
The most important properties of real audit trails are that they are side effects of the actual work, created during or after the fact without interfering with how the work is done.
The thing about work tickets is that they have none of those properties. Besides almost every developer insists on working with a complete audit trail that is just ignored because people don't want to look at it.
Compliance guarantee is a different beast, that isn't improved in any way by work tickets, but may need more work than the audit trail.
dakiol · 2h ago
Doesn't that work against you? Like, I imagine that at some point you want to get a raise, so your manager has to sell your work to other managers... and they are not gonna pass around links to your pull requests/commits. They most likely want to see epics/tasks in Jira or something similar.
I mean, finding a Jira epic/project where to fit my ticket is not the hardest part of the job tbh. Also, depending on the team and your experience, loosely fixing things here and there can be a red flag or totally the opposite (e.g., I've seen how juniors or people in general with less than a decade of experience get punished when they start fixing random things here and there. On the other side seniors or staff engineers get kudos for fixing also random things but in less volume and usually more tricky ones).
Having a ticket to back up your work is never going to hurt you, though.
apwell23 · 1h ago
why do you want to do work and not get credit for?
One of the biggest career mistakes is doing things on your own that are not aligned and approved with the management chain. Even if makes 100% sense.
They might look past it once or twice but you will get managed out eventually. Doesn't matter how good you are.
luckydata · 1h ago
yeah but it's hard for others to know what you're up to, you force everyone else to do investigations and waste time. Just open a ticket and be a good team mate.
marcosdumay · 2h ago
You have a funny definition of "dysfunctional".
datadrivenangel · 2h ago
You can either laugh or cry about it. Laughing is more fun.
This is nearly the norm for ENTERPRISE software development, and it's such a tragedy.
wavemode · 2h ago
How so?
tra3 · 2h ago
Surely it was in jest. Tons of places are like that.
ianbutler · 2h ago
Perhaps tons of places are dysfunctional. Nothing says quantity makes right.
Apocryphon · 2h ago
And when it's systemic, maybe you could say the industry has dysfunctions.
josephjrobison · 17m ago
I always find fun and comfort in imaging my work as part of the lore of a medieval saga. Think of being a character in Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones - no matter how big or small - and the role your actions play in the larger story. Side quests are welcome.
kbar13 · 3h ago
who's working at a boring job nowadays as a software dev? everywhere i see devs are wearing like 10 hats bc we have the combination of being capable yet still at the bottom of the totem pole.
dakiol · 2h ago
I just landed a new job, and I thikn it's a boring one. At my previous job I was fixing Java's memory issues, migrating databases and riding Jira epics. At my new job I'm fixing button's padding/marging, deploying and deploying stuff on Vercel. Paycheck is the same, though; so I couldn't care less.
eschneider · 2h ago
> Your CI/CD takes a huge amount of time because you forgot to leverage caching.
The bane of my existence are CI/CD systems that get caching 99% right. Chasing down the problems from that last 1% of strangely busted...well, lets just say that if you want TENSION at work, good way to get it. :/
arccy · 2h ago
with github actions... often caching is slow as well
AfterHIA · 56m ago
In the 1950s through the beginning of the 1970's the government (ARPA) was paying young scientists and innovators to do their PhD thesis' in computer design to create the next generation of human oriented computer interfaces. Now we have articles talking about how shit it is to work with computers. What the fuck man.
I feel like "tension" has negative connotations. Maybe it's just me. I like "friction" better in this context.
There are so many opportunities for improvement, I'm never bored. My aim is to leave this place better than I found it. Even tiny improvements compound over time.
pflenker · 1h ago
Find joy in the craft, don’t rely on the outside world to feed you excitement. A well-crafted wooden box can spark as much joy as a well-crafted piece of software or a well-written document.
Taxes are boring, no kid at kindergarten states they are going to be tax advisors when they grow up, yet tax advisors exist and they do not all despise their jobs, because doing your job well can be intrinsically motivating.
masijo · 38m ago
I used to feel this way until management made AI tools mandatory.
ian-g · 3h ago
Or maybe, sometimes it's just flat out dull work.
And it has to get done, you're the one with the capacity to do it, and you just have to grit your teeth and do it.
65 · 45m ago
Good luck convincing your PMs you need to refactor code for two weeks.
Tension is, imo, ephemeral. If you keep chasing it, you are chasing dopamine loops. Little good comes from this.
But meaning is different. When you can remind yourself a truly great "why" you are doing something, can re-frame it, it can help.
Most importantly, boredom, irritation, and anxiety are temporary. They are emotions. They do not define us or the work. It was a joy when I realized that all these emotions will pass. They really do. You can sit with it. You really can. You can't make it go away, but it will pass.
Any work will go a little faster when your boss puts an arbitrary deadline on it and screams "We need this by Friday, we're gonna tell the VP that it's late and it's your fault!!" But it's hugely demoralizing and stressful.
But if you say "this work will get the client's hospital equipment monitoring suite out sooner; if it works reliably, they'll be able to deploy it sooner, and it'll save the lives of some sick kids," then that'll also get the work done a little faster, and it'll make you feel good about doing it.
Arbitrary tension is a patch that you put on work that has no meaning. "We want you to go faster because it will make our metrics go up which might raise the stock a few percentage which might make our investors a few extra millions" has no meaning, which is the root problem.
I used to tell myself the same thing. Then one day, a customer misconfigured their NetScaler, and all hell broke loose. We had half-delivered CSS files, misfiring form handlers, random blank screens of death, and a buggy front-end library that would bombard the backend with requests if it received the wrong status code with no back-off logic! There were hundreds of bug reports. You name it, we had it.
Debugging everything was just wild, especially with the constant tension of "What if it's our fault?" In the end, it wasn't! We got paid for our time, and we were able to close a massive number of tickets. It was one of the best weeks of my professional life.
i can definitely confirm that meaningless work is more boring.
A lot of bad can come from this, especially if you're working on farming these loops from others and that's where you get your kick/money. But if there's no dopamine loop, ideally in addition to having some meaning, then there's just burnout.
> But meaning is different. When you can remind yourself a truly great "why" you are doing something, can re-frame it, it can help.
Ya, but it's easy to get too caught up in meaning. Meaningful meaning is scarce, and it's a bit naive to couple your paycheck to it. Most times work is just work and it needs to keep going as long as you need money. Meaning is fleeting by comparison, even for nurses and people actually doing something useful for society. When you can get it, great, but when you can't, don't go quitting your job impulsively, not in this market.
Also, so far most of our projects start simple but end in chaos and deadlines on the minute. I feel like we could always do better.
You get credit for fixing the issue, avoid giant fix-along-the-way PRs, and future credit for people (maybe even you) understanding why you those changes were made.
To put it a different way: it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. Creating a ticket is like asking permission (as the project managers will see the ticket and start asking questions about why time is being spent on low-priority things). Just going ahead and pushing code is asking forgiveness - sure, someone might notice after the fact that you did some work that you weren't assigned to do, but by that point it will be considered irrelevant, as long as your other responsibilities were handled on-time.
If you've never worked at a company where these political games are necessary - count your lucky stars!
The adult thing (hard but responsible) to do, is to create a ticket, then allocate time for feelings of the manager.
(including cost-benefit ratio comparison between “this dealing with the manager” vs “fixed thing” might be tempting)
A crappy form filled ticket by an AI is slightly better than no ticket.
Like, if you’ve got a tight deadline coming up, it’s not the time to spend a week making CI slightly faster. On the other hand, if someone is telling you to not do work (right now), then they also need to help be responsible for finding time to do that work and understanding the impacts of that work never gets done.
I explain this to people as the tension between important urgent work. Some work is important but never（rarely) urgent. And if you ignore important work (like maintenance) it might become urgent at a very bad time.
If you want small PRs that contain one meaningful, easy to review change, and that change only concerns the development team, there is no reason to create a ticket for the sake of creating a ticket.
Also, in some dysfunctional teams creating a ticket means it requires prioritization and you will most likely never work on it and ticket will be deleted five years from today when nobody you know with at the company anymore.
Believe me, no sane CFO (or include any person not in the dev team or product team) will look up your Jira ticket explaining why you wanted to refactor the GitHub actions because you had to update 10 files whenever there’s is a new version of a tool used in your pipeline.
Also, usually these changes are so small and straightforward, arguing about putting it in a ticket takes longer than reviewing it and merging it.
The thing about work tickets is that they have none of those properties. Besides almost every developer insists on working with a complete audit trail that is just ignored because people don't want to look at it.
Compliance guarantee is a different beast, that isn't improved in any way by work tickets, but may need more work than the audit trail.
I mean, finding a Jira epic/project where to fit my ticket is not the hardest part of the job tbh. Also, depending on the team and your experience, loosely fixing things here and there can be a red flag or totally the opposite (e.g., I've seen how juniors or people in general with less than a decade of experience get punished when they start fixing random things here and there. On the other side seniors or staff engineers get kudos for fixing also random things but in less volume and usually more tricky ones).
Having a ticket to back up your work is never going to hurt you, though.
One of the biggest career mistakes is doing things on your own that are not aligned and approved with the management chain. Even if makes 100% sense.
They might look past it once or twice but you will get managed out eventually. Doesn't matter how good you are.
This is nearly the norm for ENTERPRISE software development, and it's such a tragedy.
The bane of my existence are CI/CD systems that get caching 99% right. Chasing down the problems from that last 1% of strangely busted...well, lets just say that if you want TENSION at work, good way to get it. :/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sketchpad
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLS_(computer_system)
There are so many opportunities for improvement, I'm never bored. My aim is to leave this place better than I found it. Even tiny improvements compound over time.
Taxes are boring, no kid at kindergarten states they are going to be tax advisors when they grow up, yet tax advisors exist and they do not all despise their jobs, because doing your job well can be intrinsically motivating.