As a transgender woman myself, I have been witness to many in my community reduce some recreational drug use with HRT. I think it's unlikely that estrogen literally causes euphoria, but gender euphoria is real, lasting happiness. When you compare to the health effects of letting someone waste away on recreational drugs to dull dysphoria, it paints a visceral picture of transition as healthcare.
nyanpasu64 · 1h ago
It's chilling watching the latest political powers openly declare that trans people are not who they are inside and must never be allowed to become what they are inside, while eliminating legal recognition and protection and criminalizing life-saving transition healthcare. I find myself retreating into dissociation because to feel the horrors is more than I can bear.
wahern · 41m ago
The glass-is-half-full take is that no states have prohibited gender affirming care for adults. All the present bans in the U.S. only proscribe treatments for minors. But one would be forgiven for not knowing this because it's not how it's reported.
Point being, even the most conservative states haven't (yet) sought to limit treatment for trans adults.[1] Which is not nothing considering how many were so quick to ban abortion.
Also, it's not just the U.S.; plenty of "liberal" Western European countries have reversed course on care for minors. Even the Netherlands, the origin of the WPATH protocol, has pulled back on the reigns for minors, though they haven't yet instituted any prohibitions.
IMO, the trans advocacy rhetoric that equivocated hurdles to gender affirming care for minors as murder backfired. The fact there seems little motivation to limit treatment for adults suggests substantial openness to the issue among even conservative populations. And there are many in the LGTBQ community, include trans community, who share similar sentiments, at least regarding the rhetoric.
[1] Not sure about legislation dictating certain aspects, like waiting periods, but those were widespread as a practical matter in even the most liberal states.
nyanpasu64 · 1m ago
[delayed]
TJSomething · 2m ago
Florida and Missouri have been working on it, to some success. Florida's laws have decreased access by requiring in-person appointments with doctors instead of telehealth or nurse practitioners, which has eliminated access for 80% of transgender adults [1]. Missouri has banned Medicaid funding for transgender care for adults. [2]
At the national level, The One Big Beautiful Bill Act as passed by the House cuts all federal funding for transgender care for adults via Medicaid [3], though that's still pending what the Senate does.
Yeah but the whole point so far has been to pass laws under the guise of "protecting children" because that was easy to justify politically. Now that SCOTUS has green-lit denying healthcare on the basis of assigned gender at birth, the gates are wide open.
wahern · 12m ago
> Now that SCOTUS has green-lit denying healthcare on the basis of assigned gender at birth, the gates are wide open.
Yes, we're at a juncture. But my point is I don't think bans for adult care are inevitable, nor that strict prohibitions for minors need be permanent. If trans advocates and their supports took a breather and figured out how to reframe things, the backslide (such as it is) could be arrested and even reversed. But that will require, at a minimum, taking back the microphone from the most radical "advocates". And probably to depoliticize it. The issue has become highly politically polarized, but that's a relatively recent thing. I was gobsmacked by the generally tame and sympathetic conservative response to Caitlyn Jenner among conservatives 10 years ago. The turn was avoidable and, arguably, reversible.
titanomachy · 19m ago
“Denying healthcare on the basis of assigned gender at birth” seems like a deliberately loaded way to state this. Isn’t it more accurate to say it’s a blanket denial of a certain type of treatment to all minors?
wahern · 8m ago
Much of the majority and most of the dissenting opinions in the recent SCOTUS case are exactly about that--is it sex discrimination?: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/23-477_2cp3.pdf All the opinions are worth a read. The best arguments for both sides are there. Though, I thought all the best arguments on both sides kind of sucked; it's just a very difficult issue. Transgender questions lay to waste 100 years of sex and gender discourse on both the right and left.
DoctorOW · 6m ago
Personally I think it's less accurate to rephrase medical treatment as "a certain treatment". It's also false to say all minors, since cisgender minors are still approved to receive puberty blockers (and are regularly prescribed them for various reasons).
It's the same medicine from the same medical professionals and the only difference is your gender identity.
nyanpasu64 · 12m ago
I'm pretty sure they're still allowing puberty blockers for premature puberty, inducing puberty in cis teens, and surgically and medically forcing intersex people into a binary sex without consent.
KittenInABox · 6m ago
No, because puberty blockers can be assigned to children (in fact, children are the only applicable group here). They just can't be assigned to children specifically because they are transgender. Similarly, mastectomies are available treatment for teens... they just can't be used as a treatment for teens assigned female at birth.
aucisson_masque · 29m ago
From the point of view of a conservative and non us citizen, you have a good life there compared to the rest of the world.
Technically, most countries don’t allow people to be openly gay. In some countries, being gay even privately means you get beaten to death or your head chopped off.
Needless to say that transgender people are not even taken into consideration.
If I was gay or transgender, god knows I would rather be in the USA or maybe north Europe than any other country and especially not Africa, Arabia, South America.
xiande04 · 17m ago
Ah, the old "it could be worse" fallacy.
So to recap, you're saying, "don't worry about what's going on in the US right now, because you still have it better than most of the world"
Just because something could be worse does not mean that 1. It's nothing to be concerned about 2. That we shouldn't take steps to improve the situation.
Things can always be worse, so this "logic" is always applicable. It's a vacuous argument. Even if you lived in the country with the worst homo/transphobia in the world, you could tell the person, "well, at least your alive."
Moreover, there's nothing constructive about this line of thinking. If people actually lived by this logic, we would live in a static world, because "it could be worse."
karcass · 1h ago
I lost interest in psychedelics after transitioning.
deadbabe · 1h ago
Is gender dysphoria thus caused by the body craving testosterone or estrogen hormones, when it doesn’t have?
kelseyfrog · 1h ago
That's one way to think of it, but the root of it (imho) is a mismatch between ones internal sense of inalienable gender identity and the embodiment of that identity physically - think clothing, bodily form, social perception, etc.
It might be difficult to imagine how those two things are separable if one has lived their whole life with them in congruence. If perhaps, you close your eyes and concentrate on your being, there is a part of you that feels that your sense of manness of womanness is part of who you are? What would you do if you retained that sense, and woke up in the body of the opposite sex and were expected to behave in congruence with that contrary to your internal sense of self? It can be a bit like that.
DoctorOW · 1h ago
I haven't studied gender dysphoria but I've been diagnosed with it. In my experience, it's an incongruence between your idea of yourself and your perceptible form. In some ways it could be argued your body is "craving" it but not in the same way it may crave a specific nutrient. Instead, you're sort of surprised and often upset by the way that you are.
antithesizer · 1h ago
Amen
looneysquash · 22m ago
> when prompted to state my gender identity or preferred pronouns, I fold my hands into the dhyana mudra and state that I practice emptiness on the concept of gender.
That's fine, but when I tell people "Cube Flipper wrote this great blog post!", what pronouns do you want me to use actually use?
I guess I'll refer to you as "they" since you didn't otherwise specify. But the "unknown/unspecified" version of "they" and not the "prefers they" version of "they".
Looks like a great article. I didn't quite make it to the end. The science is interesting, but that isn't a trip I am considering, so I skimmed a little.
kushan2020 · 5m ago
Waking up everyday and drinking monster energy drink followed by Diet Coke in theory should have some effect on your brain. Does abstaining from them have any effect on your HRT?
MondayGravity · 1h ago
Perhaps this is an insensitive question/comment, but do trans women feel like they have the wrong body or the wrong wholesale gender? In my experience with trans women I know, they still seem to relate primarily to men (they still gravitate towards male dominated interests) whereas many gay men I know seem to relate primarily with women, and gravitate towards women interests.
So this reconciliation is hard, and the topic too sensitive for me to dare asking people I know in real life.
FatalLogic · 1m ago
I guess (I really do mean 'guess') that they experience a disorienting sense of disassociation which could be comparable, though much more shocking, to the situation of a person who realizes, late in life, that their difficulties in relating and connecting to other people are not imaginary.
Most commonly, they realize that they are having problems because they are "on the spectrum" or have Asperger's or autism-adjacent conditions or, perhaps, some ADHD/ADD challenges. I'm sure that there are many people in the HN community who have been surprised to discover this about themselves.
For people who discover challenges related to gender identity and dysphoria though, the difference is that they're not only realizing that they have the "wrong" mind, but they even have the wrong physical body, too. [In this sentence, my opinion is that the definition of "wrong" is based more on the traditional viewpoints of conventional culture, and not so much on reality].
heterodoxlib · 24m ago
A slightly different but closely related question for those who are answering: what do you attribute the difference to? Is it biological in basis, spiritual/metaphysical, or cultural?
I keep hearing people say "gender is a social construct" and those same people then go on to emphatically support transgender as a concept. This leads me to wonder: if gender is a social construct, is identifying as transgender the result of feeling pressure to conform to a cookie-cutter definition of what someone with male/female parts is meant to be like? If so, is being transgender also just a social construct that can and maybe should be addressed by loosening up our tight expectations for gender roles? Or is being transgender more biological than cultural for you?
ghushn3 · 7m ago
You are asking a good question (it reads to me like a good faith question that comes from a desire to learn more about how others think).
> Is it biological in basis, spiritual/metaphysical, or cultural?
Personally, I view it as cultural leading to physiological -- what does it mean to be a man? What is "manly"? I think everyone can agree that "manliness" is different globally. Is Bill Gates manly? He's very successful, but is that something that's manly? Is Tom Cruise manly? Or Kid Rock? What about George Takei? Manliness has some multi-axis definition that exists in each culture around the world.
We call that set of vectors "being a man", and we push people who are born with penises into it because it seems to fit most people who are born with XY chromosomes. Personally, I think it's useful to decouple the two ideas -- what my body is, and what the cultural expectations are in how I should behave because I have that body. This is what people mean when they say gender is a social construct -- they are saying, "The piece we call 'manliness' is a separate concept from the piece we define by bodies."
Now, say I experience anxiety, fear, and revulsion about the set of vectors that define "manliness". I have a penis, but absolutely all the vectors for "womanliness" line up with my understanding of how the world works. Clothing, presentation, speech patterns, interests, activities, etc. etc. etc. What do I do in such a case?
I could just live my life in pursuit of the 'wrong' set of vectors -- but socially that's quite dangerous. When people who are "supposed" to maximize one set of vectors try to live with another set, they tend to get bullied (if not violently attacked.) This puts me in a bind -- either live a miserable life pretending to be manly OR push my body to try and match the set of vectors associated with womanliness. (Or, change society to stop caring so much about people who fall outside of the traditional vector space, but that's a lot harder than either of the two other approaches.)
> is being transgender also just a social construct that can and maybe should be addressed by loosening up our tight expectations for gender roles?
For me, absolutely! That's the exactly the sort of ideal world I'd love to be in -- let people just... pursue what makes them feel happy. If someone with a penis wants to get way into makeup and the color pink, stop beating the shit out of them for it.
Fraterkes · 53m ago
I haven’t really found that to be true in my friend groups, but also it is really common for people on the spectrum to be trans, and a lot of autistic people in general tend to have interests that we view as male-coded.
antonfire · 41m ago
> Perhaps this is an insensitive question/comment, but do trans women feel like they have the wrong body or the wrong wholesale gender?
It varies.
> In my experience with trans women I know, they still seem to relate primarily to men (they still gravitate towards male dominated interests) whereas many gay men I know seem to relate primarily with women, and gravitate towards women interests.
For whatever it's worth, I think observations like this are as useful a cue to look inward for an explanation as they are to look outwards.
For one thing, part of the whole "gender" thing is the way people's preconceptions lead them to parse information about others (and themselves!), and your sense of trends is probably influenced by that. (E.g. when a (gay) man gravitates towards "women interests" that may just be more salient than when a woman does, so you notice it more.) For another, you might be in a lot of male-dominated spaces (e.g. this one), so the set of trans women you know is probably not that representative. These might not be the whole story, but they certainly have a role to play in whatever reconciliation you're seeking. Gender is difficult to navigate: we're all swimming in it.
For me personally: I'm "nonbinary", whatever that means. As I see it today, for me being trans feels like more of a "wrong wholesale gender" thing than a "wrong body" thing. (But I'm open to the idea that I'm just not in touch with my body.) Part of the "wholesale gender" thing is the realization at some point in my life that "gender" was playing a much bigger role in my life than I had realized, including how I relate to people, what interests I gravitate towards, and so on. Something I find deeply aversive.
But I'm also averse to, like, rearranging my whole life to retroactively "fix the gender story" around it, just to make myself more legible. You might parse me as gravitating towards interests that line up with my assigned gender at birth (AGAB), and maybe even as relating to people primarily of my AGAB, and so on. I'm sure some people go further and functionally take this as an excuse to continue to relate to me through the lens of my "birth gender" or what have have you. I'm sure it's easier. From my perspective, I suspect those people are underestimating how much of a clusterfuck the whole "gender" thing is.
RebeccaTheDev · 31m ago
I can't speak for other trans women, but is kind of how I describe my experience with this. And this is from someone who is a later-transitioner, talking about this specific type of social dysphoria [0].
It took me enormous effort to relate to other men, and I was never sure if I was doing it correctly. I would go out of my way to try to learn "how to man," including having typically male-coded interests (like sports, or home repair) that I really didn't actually care about but knew I had to because it was socially expected of me. I knew I had to, because I had to operate in that world, but I was never comfortable, none of it ever came naturally and all of it just felt wrong.
I was desperate to relate to women. It would hurt that I wouldn't be able to participate in that world even though I longed to be a part of it. Often my wife and I would have grill out parties, and I would be at my expected place outside with the guys, talking stuff I hated, but I longed to be chatting with the other women inside. I feel comfortable as a woman, and much more comfortable relating to other women in my life.
Do I still have male friends? Of course. I have men I worked with for decades and that I'm still friends with. Our relationships definitely changed a bit, but we still have shared experiences that bind us together. At the same time, with my female friends, our relationships definitely changed as well. Things felt different. Our conversations got deeper and more meaningful, and I feel like I "know" some of them better than I ever knew any of my male friends.
I also kept some of my male interests because I'm interested in them.. I still love aviation and trains. Definitely male-coded interests (though there are quite a few more women than one might expect.) I also picked up, or in some cases learned to stop repressing, typically feminine-coded interests. I have far more fun with dress than I ever cared about doing as a guy. Or, now I proudly own that I read romance novels instead of sheepishly hiding my kindle.
Can’t you just be a man that loves spending time with women instead of a woman ‘trapped’ in the body of a man ?
I have known several men, non gay, that just behaved more like women than men. that was fine, and as far as I know they didn’t swapped gender.
Like you can be a duck, happy when around dogs but still be a duck.
srinivgp · 5m ago
Some people certainly can simply enjoy spending time with people not of their assumed cluster of traits. But that's not what's going on with trans women. They aren't doing some sort of "going overboard when you'd be perfectly happy with less" or whatever you're asking. Is it really so hard to believe trans women? Brains do _all sorts_ of things that seem weird if your own brain doesn't do it. Aphantasia, synesthesia, plurality, autism all come to mind immediately.
RebeccaTheDev · 17m ago
You can do whatever you like. Many do, and are totally happy about that.
Note, again, I am talking about one specific "type" of gender dysphoria, social dysphoria. There are usually far more facets that come into play as well.
And that's also a way you know you're trans, and not just a man that loves spending time with women. Because the relationships dynamics and social expectations are totally different regardless, we feel out of place. And not being seen in the correct way causes ... pretty deep negative feelings.
davmar · 1h ago
don't forget that socialization plays a role. boys are guided to certain activities in their youth, girls to others.
brooke2k · 34m ago
I don't think it's an insensitive question at all. To answer - As a trans woman, interests/hobbies are not really a marker of gender that I feel is important to me. I would say the same is true of all my trans friends, although ofc that is not a representative sample, so take it with a grain of salt.
For me, in no particular order, these are the elements of sex/gender that I find important (and which were crucial for me to align during my transition):
* My body. This was perhaps the single most important one. Hormones worked wonders here, as well as growing out my hair, shaving, learning to take care of my skin, etc.
* Clothing/makeup went a long way towards making me feel better about myself. It takes a very long time and a lot of practice and skill-building to be "good" at fashion/makeup/etc, but it was worth it.
* My personality. This one is the hardest to describe. I can only say that when my body ran on testosterone, I was miserable, antisocial, arrogant, and annoying, and after switching over to estrogen, I am much happier, better at conversation, more empathetic, and by all reports much more likeable.
* My relationship to other women. It's hard to describe, but as I transitioned I became a lot closer to the women in my life, and grew apart slightly from the men in my life.
I think in part this emerges from the negative side of being a woman in society (being leered at/catcalled/harassed/stalked/patronized/discriminated against/etc). It leads women to stick together and trust each other more implicitly than men. So as a trans woman, gradually being welcomed into this "club" was very gender-affirming (although the negative stuff still sucks :/)
* Name and pronouns. At this point (~4 years) I pass enough in public that I am essentially never misgendered, but on the rare occasion I am, it certainly ruins my day. Pronouns matter more than cis people might think.
* Relationship to my family. Being called "daughter" by my parents, doing mom/daughter stuff with my mom, etc.
There are probably other factors that I'm not thinking of right now, but this is what comes to mind as I write this. And notably, my interests/hobbies aren't really included there. I do software development, I'm into skateboarding and punk music and videogames, I play dungeons and dragons. All "male-coded" hobbies for the most part, but I really just attribute that to the fact that I developed my hobbies as a kid, and as a kid I was a boy with friends who were boys and who did boyish stuff.
I personally don't find that that affects my perception of my gender at all. Hopefully this helps clear up your confusion! Let me know if there's anything I can clarify further.
PartiallyTyped · 1h ago
The people I know couldn't relate to men at all, felt like completely different species. While they may have some interests from their "past" life, many of them felt that they could now enjoy things women did without judgement, and so they did.
gherkinnn · 1h ago
What an interesting read. I wonder, are these reports a reliable way to begin to understand what it feels like to be of the other sex? Insofar as such a thing is possible, of course. The anecdotes of smell and the sensation of powering up a hill are fascinating.
On a different note,
> At smoothbrains.net, we hold as self-evident the right to put whatever one likes inside one’s body;
I never thought of it that way, but I agree.
pazimzadeh · 1h ago
> It’s as if I took the entire volumetric representation of the space around me and increased the degree to which every point within that could influence the location of every other point, recursively. This allows everything to elastically settle into a more harmonious equilibrium.
What does this mean? There has to be a simpler way to get this idea across..
> Perhaps taste could be built out of something like dyadic vibrations, tuned by evolution towards consonance or dissonance in order to generate an attractive or aversive response in the organism?
Same here
ghushn3 · 21m ago
> What does this mean?
My understanding was like... you know those spring diagrams, where edges of a graph are all attached by a spring, and physics sorta causes nodes to cluster naturally? I think this is saying, "I wish all the space around me could order itself into a more natural and pleasing shape."
> Same here
Dyads are like... imagine you had two vectors, represented by lego bricks. After attaching them, rather than having a red brick and a blue brick, you have a particular Red-Blue brick. So, one can imagine these unique shapes move and vibrate in ways that are unique to that pair.
The author is saying, I think, "Individual preferences aren't composed of atomic units, but rather subtle adjustments in all the combinations of those individual pieces. Evolution probably looks for places where those combinations line up nicely (and avoids places they don't line up nicely), and tunes the organism to seek those combinations."
Does this suggest at all that these changes could also be differences in the way (cis) men and women perceive the world? In other words, do cis women experience sweet food tasting sweeter, colors being more vibrant, etc, compared to cis men?
Edit: I’m aware there’s evidence for differences in color discrimination and taste preferences between the sexes. But seeing the differences described from a first person perspective of someone used to being a male is fascinating. It’s a common cliche that women laugh much more than men, for example — and here’s someone saying that being on estrogen made funny things seem much funnier. I wonder what the experience is like for FtM who take testosterone?
foxmoder · 4m ago
Anecdotal, but I found that my sense of smell improved significantly after a long time taking estrogen, and I've heard many similar one-off stories from other people who've done so too. It certainly does change your physical perception of the world in a few ways, as well as the general feeling of existing in one's body.
One recurring theme I've heard from people going from majority testosterone to majority estrogen is a feeling like a continuous 'buzzing' sensation in their head had finally stopped; this is something I personally experience, and there's a certain degree of relaxed serenity that comes with it for me. (This said, experiences vary a lot, and many who have had both primary hormones prefer the feeling of testosterone.)
I personally think that it's a beautiful opportunity to get to experience life through both sets of hormones; it's offered a lot of interesting perspective on my personal notions of 'self', and allowed me to develop empathy for different experiences others experience in their bodies.
Fraterkes · 47m ago
Gendered cliches are incredibly common, but I’ve never heard one that involves women liking sweet food more or less than men, which you’d expect if there were actual differences in taste I think
vinoveritas · 19m ago
It’s an extremely common pattern for alcoholic drinks, to the point that a man ordering a very sweet drink or a woman ordering neat whisky is likely to draw comments (not even necessarily negative ones, especially in the case of a woman preferring usually-masculine drinks). It’s also present in wine marketing—the lower end of the market has heavily feminine-coded marketing and tends to be very sweet (at least in the US), and in fact that aligns with actual preferences I’ve observed (I’m not sure I know a single woman who prefers dry wines?)
Chocolate (dark vs milk) and coffee drinks (heavy on milk and sugar versus light on them, or black) follow similar patterns in perception (and actual observed preferences, IME)
Of course, how much of that is nature versus socialization is another matter… but also, the kind of risk-taking and one-upsmanship behavior that might drive men to be more willing to acquire tastes for things that aren’t initially appealing and to so-expand their palates may itself be hormonal, so even one plausible “nurture” cause for this might actually be “nature” one step removed.
But either way, and even if data doesn’t bear any of that out (pretty sure it would, though), the perception that all that’s generally true is certainly common.
blindriver · 42m ago
You are assuming that people mostly experience the world in exactly the same way. That is a huge assumption that's likely to be wrong.
marcellus23 · 13m ago
What? How in the world did I make that assumption?
mintplant · 52m ago
Women are generally better at perceiving and distinguishing colors and smells, according to the studies we have. Anecdotally, my sense of smell has gone from dull to vibrant over the course of my (MtF) transition, and I have a friend who no longer experiences the color-blindness she used to before hers, though I'm not aware of any scientific evidence or inquiry in this area.
tofof · 6m ago
Women (here I mean XX individuals) have two different alleles present for each of the green (OPN1MW, also the OPN1MW2 duplication) and red cones (OPN1LW), since these are found on the x chromosome. X-inactivation means that only one gets expressed in a particular cell, but this means individual photoreceptor cells can express either allele. The individual proteins and gene encodings of the cones can differ, and small variations shift the spectral sensitivity to slightly shorter or slightly longer wavelengths. It's possible, then, for a woman to express as many as five unique-ish cones in theory -- though there's only been one 'true' tetrachromat found so far. Still, having red and green cone variants that respond with a peak preference shifted 10-20 nm in addition to another unshifted cone (or, better, shifted the opposite direction) provides a biological basis to expect women (again, specifically XX individuals) to have finer color differentiation. This explanation, however, could not occur following a hormone replacement.
TheOtherHobbes · 51m ago
There are some established differences. Women have better colour, taste, and smell discrimination. Some women are tetrachromats with an extra colour sense, while men are more likely to have red/green colour blindness.
Men have better night vision, are more aware of motion, and are better at tracking location and judging distances.
antonfire · 32m ago
> Some women are tetrachromats with an extra colour sense, while men are more likely to have red/green colour blindness.
If I'm not mistaken, red/green color blindness is more common in men because it's caused my a mutation on the X chromosome (which men tend to have fewer of). I would guess a similar thing about tetrachromacy.
So those are probably unrelated to color-perception changes due to exogenous estrogen.
comrade1234 · 50m ago
You're telling me you can just go to a Walgreens in the USA and get a bag of estrogen and start injecting it without the advice and monitoring of a doctor? Even though hormone replacement therapy can lead to all kinds of problems? Is this normal?
cobertos · 45m ago
No. This is incorrect. OP explicitly mentions "jumping through bureaucratic hoops"
> Not long after, I had jumped through the relevant bureaucratic hoops, and subsequently found myself cycling home from the pharmacy
runeblaze · 9m ago
My opinion is that at least (safe, not spiro) anti-androgens should be able to be bought OTC. If some people want to place blockers on themselves they should be allowed to
wtfwhateven · 45m ago
Where on earth are you getting this idea from?
comrade1234 · 21m ago
From the first few paragraphs of the article?
> and subsequently found myself cycling home from the pharmacy with a paper bag filled with repurposed menopause medication
and then no mention after of monitoring of health effects?
roughly · 9m ago
So, the beginning of that sentence is:
> I had jumped through the relevant bureaucratic hoops
cthalupa · 27m ago
Wait until you hear about how easy it is to get testosterone.
yuriks · 19m ago
Ironically, testosterone in theory is harder to get. Since it is widely used for sports doping, it's considered an anabolic steroid, and is a scheduled substance in the US, and so has a bit more oversight to prescribe and dispense. (But I imagine there's probably also a larger black market for it for the same reasons.)
cthalupa · 11m ago
There are a billion TRT clinics that will prescribe you testosterone with basically zero oversight and at dosages that are supraphysiological.
And yes, the black market is huge - anyone with google and the ability to purchase crypto can get it easily delivered, either domestically, or from china.
HK-NC · 1h ago
I remember reading that autism was basically the brain equivalent of some roided out muscle beast. Too much testosterone in the womb or something.
Given the huge crossover with trans and autism, could it just be a case of giving autistic men female hormones to try to balance this out over time? I dont really buy the rest of the fluff that comes with it, especially given the attitudes around it and my own experiences getting over dysphoria before there was a culture around taking things in another direction.
comrade1234 · 26m ago
Interesting also that penis size is directly correlated with testosterone levels in the womb...
ghushn3 · 30m ago
> before there was a culture around taking things in another direction
You are talking about a time before culture? Trans identity shows up as early as Mesopotamia, and there are cultures around the globe that have different genders than just Man and Woman.
Point being, even the most conservative states haven't (yet) sought to limit treatment for trans adults.[1] Which is not nothing considering how many were so quick to ban abortion.
Also, it's not just the U.S.; plenty of "liberal" Western European countries have reversed course on care for minors. Even the Netherlands, the origin of the WPATH protocol, has pulled back on the reigns for minors, though they haven't yet instituted any prohibitions.
IMO, the trans advocacy rhetoric that equivocated hurdles to gender affirming care for minors as murder backfired. The fact there seems little motivation to limit treatment for adults suggests substantial openness to the issue among even conservative populations. And there are many in the LGTBQ community, include trans community, who share similar sentiments, at least regarding the rhetoric.
[1] Not sure about legislation dictating certain aspects, like waiting periods, but those were widespread as a practical matter in even the most liberal states.
At the national level, The One Big Beautiful Bill Act as passed by the House cuts all federal funding for transgender care for adults via Medicaid [3], though that's still pending what the Senate does.
[1] https://apnews.com/article/florida-transgender-health-care-a...
[2] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/missouri-governor-signs-...
[3] https://www.politifact.com/article/2025/jun/02/medicaid-bill...
Yes, we're at a juncture. But my point is I don't think bans for adult care are inevitable, nor that strict prohibitions for minors need be permanent. If trans advocates and their supports took a breather and figured out how to reframe things, the backslide (such as it is) could be arrested and even reversed. But that will require, at a minimum, taking back the microphone from the most radical "advocates". And probably to depoliticize it. The issue has become highly politically polarized, but that's a relatively recent thing. I was gobsmacked by the generally tame and sympathetic conservative response to Caitlyn Jenner among conservatives 10 years ago. The turn was avoidable and, arguably, reversible.
It's the same medicine from the same medical professionals and the only difference is your gender identity.
Technically, most countries don’t allow people to be openly gay. In some countries, being gay even privately means you get beaten to death or your head chopped off.
Needless to say that transgender people are not even taken into consideration.
If I was gay or transgender, god knows I would rather be in the USA or maybe north Europe than any other country and especially not Africa, Arabia, South America.
So to recap, you're saying, "don't worry about what's going on in the US right now, because you still have it better than most of the world"
Just because something could be worse does not mean that 1. It's nothing to be concerned about 2. That we shouldn't take steps to improve the situation.
Things can always be worse, so this "logic" is always applicable. It's a vacuous argument. Even if you lived in the country with the worst homo/transphobia in the world, you could tell the person, "well, at least your alive."
Moreover, there's nothing constructive about this line of thinking. If people actually lived by this logic, we would live in a static world, because "it could be worse."
It might be difficult to imagine how those two things are separable if one has lived their whole life with them in congruence. If perhaps, you close your eyes and concentrate on your being, there is a part of you that feels that your sense of manness of womanness is part of who you are? What would you do if you retained that sense, and woke up in the body of the opposite sex and were expected to behave in congruence with that contrary to your internal sense of self? It can be a bit like that.
That's fine, but when I tell people "Cube Flipper wrote this great blog post!", what pronouns do you want me to use actually use?
I guess I'll refer to you as "they" since you didn't otherwise specify. But the "unknown/unspecified" version of "they" and not the "prefers they" version of "they".
Looks like a great article. I didn't quite make it to the end. The science is interesting, but that isn't a trip I am considering, so I skimmed a little.
So this reconciliation is hard, and the topic too sensitive for me to dare asking people I know in real life.
Most commonly, they realize that they are having problems because they are "on the spectrum" or have Asperger's or autism-adjacent conditions or, perhaps, some ADHD/ADD challenges. I'm sure that there are many people in the HN community who have been surprised to discover this about themselves.
For example, this man, who has been successful in very many ways: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-57045770
For people who discover challenges related to gender identity and dysphoria though, the difference is that they're not only realizing that they have the "wrong" mind, but they even have the wrong physical body, too. [In this sentence, my opinion is that the definition of "wrong" is based more on the traditional viewpoints of conventional culture, and not so much on reality].
I keep hearing people say "gender is a social construct" and those same people then go on to emphatically support transgender as a concept. This leads me to wonder: if gender is a social construct, is identifying as transgender the result of feeling pressure to conform to a cookie-cutter definition of what someone with male/female parts is meant to be like? If so, is being transgender also just a social construct that can and maybe should be addressed by loosening up our tight expectations for gender roles? Or is being transgender more biological than cultural for you?
> Is it biological in basis, spiritual/metaphysical, or cultural?
Personally, I view it as cultural leading to physiological -- what does it mean to be a man? What is "manly"? I think everyone can agree that "manliness" is different globally. Is Bill Gates manly? He's very successful, but is that something that's manly? Is Tom Cruise manly? Or Kid Rock? What about George Takei? Manliness has some multi-axis definition that exists in each culture around the world.
We call that set of vectors "being a man", and we push people who are born with penises into it because it seems to fit most people who are born with XY chromosomes. Personally, I think it's useful to decouple the two ideas -- what my body is, and what the cultural expectations are in how I should behave because I have that body. This is what people mean when they say gender is a social construct -- they are saying, "The piece we call 'manliness' is a separate concept from the piece we define by bodies."
Now, say I experience anxiety, fear, and revulsion about the set of vectors that define "manliness". I have a penis, but absolutely all the vectors for "womanliness" line up with my understanding of how the world works. Clothing, presentation, speech patterns, interests, activities, etc. etc. etc. What do I do in such a case?
I could just live my life in pursuit of the 'wrong' set of vectors -- but socially that's quite dangerous. When people who are "supposed" to maximize one set of vectors try to live with another set, they tend to get bullied (if not violently attacked.) This puts me in a bind -- either live a miserable life pretending to be manly OR push my body to try and match the set of vectors associated with womanliness. (Or, change society to stop caring so much about people who fall outside of the traditional vector space, but that's a lot harder than either of the two other approaches.)
> is being transgender also just a social construct that can and maybe should be addressed by loosening up our tight expectations for gender roles?
For me, absolutely! That's the exactly the sort of ideal world I'd love to be in -- let people just... pursue what makes them feel happy. If someone with a penis wants to get way into makeup and the color pink, stop beating the shit out of them for it.
It varies.
> In my experience with trans women I know, they still seem to relate primarily to men (they still gravitate towards male dominated interests) whereas many gay men I know seem to relate primarily with women, and gravitate towards women interests.
For whatever it's worth, I think observations like this are as useful a cue to look inward for an explanation as they are to look outwards.
For one thing, part of the whole "gender" thing is the way people's preconceptions lead them to parse information about others (and themselves!), and your sense of trends is probably influenced by that. (E.g. when a (gay) man gravitates towards "women interests" that may just be more salient than when a woman does, so you notice it more.) For another, you might be in a lot of male-dominated spaces (e.g. this one), so the set of trans women you know is probably not that representative. These might not be the whole story, but they certainly have a role to play in whatever reconciliation you're seeking. Gender is difficult to navigate: we're all swimming in it.
For me personally: I'm "nonbinary", whatever that means. As I see it today, for me being trans feels like more of a "wrong wholesale gender" thing than a "wrong body" thing. (But I'm open to the idea that I'm just not in touch with my body.) Part of the "wholesale gender" thing is the realization at some point in my life that "gender" was playing a much bigger role in my life than I had realized, including how I relate to people, what interests I gravitate towards, and so on. Something I find deeply aversive.
But I'm also averse to, like, rearranging my whole life to retroactively "fix the gender story" around it, just to make myself more legible. You might parse me as gravitating towards interests that line up with my assigned gender at birth (AGAB), and maybe even as relating to people primarily of my AGAB, and so on. I'm sure some people go further and functionally take this as an excuse to continue to relate to me through the lens of my "birth gender" or what have have you. I'm sure it's easier. From my perspective, I suspect those people are underestimating how much of a clusterfuck the whole "gender" thing is.
It took me enormous effort to relate to other men, and I was never sure if I was doing it correctly. I would go out of my way to try to learn "how to man," including having typically male-coded interests (like sports, or home repair) that I really didn't actually care about but knew I had to because it was socially expected of me. I knew I had to, because I had to operate in that world, but I was never comfortable, none of it ever came naturally and all of it just felt wrong.
I was desperate to relate to women. It would hurt that I wouldn't be able to participate in that world even though I longed to be a part of it. Often my wife and I would have grill out parties, and I would be at my expected place outside with the guys, talking stuff I hated, but I longed to be chatting with the other women inside. I feel comfortable as a woman, and much more comfortable relating to other women in my life.
Do I still have male friends? Of course. I have men I worked with for decades and that I'm still friends with. Our relationships definitely changed a bit, but we still have shared experiences that bind us together. At the same time, with my female friends, our relationships definitely changed as well. Things felt different. Our conversations got deeper and more meaningful, and I feel like I "know" some of them better than I ever knew any of my male friends.
I also kept some of my male interests because I'm interested in them.. I still love aviation and trains. Definitely male-coded interests (though there are quite a few more women than one might expect.) I also picked up, or in some cases learned to stop repressing, typically feminine-coded interests. I have far more fun with dress than I ever cared about doing as a guy. Or, now I proudly own that I read romance novels instead of sheepishly hiding my kindle.
[0] https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/social-dysphoria
I have known several men, non gay, that just behaved more like women than men. that was fine, and as far as I know they didn’t swapped gender.
Like you can be a duck, happy when around dogs but still be a duck.
Note, again, I am talking about one specific "type" of gender dysphoria, social dysphoria. There are usually far more facets that come into play as well.
And that's also a way you know you're trans, and not just a man that loves spending time with women. Because the relationships dynamics and social expectations are totally different regardless, we feel out of place. And not being seen in the correct way causes ... pretty deep negative feelings.
For me, in no particular order, these are the elements of sex/gender that I find important (and which were crucial for me to align during my transition):
* My body. This was perhaps the single most important one. Hormones worked wonders here, as well as growing out my hair, shaving, learning to take care of my skin, etc.
* Clothing/makeup went a long way towards making me feel better about myself. It takes a very long time and a lot of practice and skill-building to be "good" at fashion/makeup/etc, but it was worth it.
* My personality. This one is the hardest to describe. I can only say that when my body ran on testosterone, I was miserable, antisocial, arrogant, and annoying, and after switching over to estrogen, I am much happier, better at conversation, more empathetic, and by all reports much more likeable.
* My relationship to other women. It's hard to describe, but as I transitioned I became a lot closer to the women in my life, and grew apart slightly from the men in my life.
I think in part this emerges from the negative side of being a woman in society (being leered at/catcalled/harassed/stalked/patronized/discriminated against/etc). It leads women to stick together and trust each other more implicitly than men. So as a trans woman, gradually being welcomed into this "club" was very gender-affirming (although the negative stuff still sucks :/)
* Name and pronouns. At this point (~4 years) I pass enough in public that I am essentially never misgendered, but on the rare occasion I am, it certainly ruins my day. Pronouns matter more than cis people might think.
* Relationship to my family. Being called "daughter" by my parents, doing mom/daughter stuff with my mom, etc.
There are probably other factors that I'm not thinking of right now, but this is what comes to mind as I write this. And notably, my interests/hobbies aren't really included there. I do software development, I'm into skateboarding and punk music and videogames, I play dungeons and dragons. All "male-coded" hobbies for the most part, but I really just attribute that to the fact that I developed my hobbies as a kid, and as a kid I was a boy with friends who were boys and who did boyish stuff.
I personally don't find that that affects my perception of my gender at all. Hopefully this helps clear up your confusion! Let me know if there's anything I can clarify further.
On a different note,
> At smoothbrains.net, we hold as self-evident the right to put whatever one likes inside one’s body;
I never thought of it that way, but I agree.
What does this mean? There has to be a simpler way to get this idea across..
> Perhaps taste could be built out of something like dyadic vibrations, tuned by evolution towards consonance or dissonance in order to generate an attractive or aversive response in the organism?
Same here
My understanding was like... you know those spring diagrams, where edges of a graph are all attached by a spring, and physics sorta causes nodes to cluster naturally? I think this is saying, "I wish all the space around me could order itself into a more natural and pleasing shape."
> Same here
Dyads are like... imagine you had two vectors, represented by lego bricks. After attaching them, rather than having a red brick and a blue brick, you have a particular Red-Blue brick. So, one can imagine these unique shapes move and vibrate in ways that are unique to that pair.
The author is saying, I think, "Individual preferences aren't composed of atomic units, but rather subtle adjustments in all the combinations of those individual pieces. Evolution probably looks for places where those combinations line up nicely (and avoids places they don't line up nicely), and tunes the organism to seek those combinations."
Edit: I’m aware there’s evidence for differences in color discrimination and taste preferences between the sexes. But seeing the differences described from a first person perspective of someone used to being a male is fascinating. It’s a common cliche that women laugh much more than men, for example — and here’s someone saying that being on estrogen made funny things seem much funnier. I wonder what the experience is like for FtM who take testosterone?
One recurring theme I've heard from people going from majority testosterone to majority estrogen is a feeling like a continuous 'buzzing' sensation in their head had finally stopped; this is something I personally experience, and there's a certain degree of relaxed serenity that comes with it for me. (This said, experiences vary a lot, and many who have had both primary hormones prefer the feeling of testosterone.)
I personally think that it's a beautiful opportunity to get to experience life through both sets of hormones; it's offered a lot of interesting perspective on my personal notions of 'self', and allowed me to develop empathy for different experiences others experience in their bodies.
Chocolate (dark vs milk) and coffee drinks (heavy on milk and sugar versus light on them, or black) follow similar patterns in perception (and actual observed preferences, IME)
Of course, how much of that is nature versus socialization is another matter… but also, the kind of risk-taking and one-upsmanship behavior that might drive men to be more willing to acquire tastes for things that aren’t initially appealing and to so-expand their palates may itself be hormonal, so even one plausible “nurture” cause for this might actually be “nature” one step removed.
But either way, and even if data doesn’t bear any of that out (pretty sure it would, though), the perception that all that’s generally true is certainly common.
Men have better night vision, are more aware of motion, and are better at tracking location and judging distances.
If I'm not mistaken, red/green color blindness is more common in men because it's caused my a mutation on the X chromosome (which men tend to have fewer of). I would guess a similar thing about tetrachromacy.
So those are probably unrelated to color-perception changes due to exogenous estrogen.
> Not long after, I had jumped through the relevant bureaucratic hoops, and subsequently found myself cycling home from the pharmacy
> and subsequently found myself cycling home from the pharmacy with a paper bag filled with repurposed menopause medication
and then no mention after of monitoring of health effects?
> I had jumped through the relevant bureaucratic hoops
And yes, the black market is huge - anyone with google and the ability to purchase crypto can get it easily delivered, either domestically, or from china.
You are talking about a time before culture? Trans identity shows up as early as Mesopotamia, and there are cultures around the globe that have different genders than just Man and Woman.