There are so many "reports" now that show from 2020-2025 and act like some insane change has occurred when using the insanity of 2020-2021 as a baseline. Extend the chart back to 2000ish so we can see if this is an actual change or just a return to normal.
xboxnolifes · 3h ago
The graph doesn't even show a drop. It's showing things as being roughly equal today as to 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022. It just shows 2023 and 2024 being outliers.
castlecrasher2 · 3h ago
>Why does the chart stop at 2020.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
alephnerd · 4h ago
It's 2025. 2019 has become history.
It's like comparing the job market in 2017 with that in 2010. A lot changes in 6 years in the tech industry.
Dylan16807 · 2h ago
If "history" and "today" have very different numbers, that could mean many things.
But if they have very similar numbers, than that's strong evidence that things have not in fact changed much.
"History" is often relevant, and depending on the claim it can be very relevant.
didgetmaster · 5h ago
I generally judge how accurate a story is, by how much the graph is manipulated to show the most drastic possible change.
When the start is something like October 11, 2023 and the end is not today; that is usually a big tell.
senderista · 5h ago
Not a fan of the non-zeroed-out y-axis.
cdkmoose · 1h ago
That's a big pet peeve of mine, although to be fair I've seen much worse than this one. It can make the deltas look more meaningful than they actually are.
mainecoder · 5h ago
This is false, the situation in the United States has definitely been less favorable however the situation in many developing countries has gotten even worse and thus there are more people who will want to work in the US since they do not have the luxury of living
alephnerd · 4h ago
Depends developing country to developing country.
White Collar hiring and salary growth has picked up in China, India, ASEAN, etc. Living standards for the average person won't be hot, but if you are working in a STEM field you are earning on the higher end, and by mid-career you can afford to insulate yourself from some of the worst aspects living in gated communities or suburbs.
Azerbaijan might be a different story, as you guys might be getting some contagion from Turkiye and Russia's economic slowdown.
Interestingly, interest in immigrating to Germany, Australia, and Canada also dropped as well. And overall interest in immigrating for STEM jobs has fallen.
What this appear so the showing is that brain drain is starting to slow down as white collar salaries have risen in countries like China, South Korea, India, Romania, etc.
No reason uprooting your life to earn $50k in Germany or $150k in the US when you can earn $30k in China, Romania, or India.
I've been saying this for a long time, glad to see this observation is starting to be validated.
Havoc · 51m ago
UK also just announced a supposed reversal of the migrant labour gameplan
janalsncm · 5h ago
The article attributes that drop to stricter immigration policies in those countries, but I’d like to see more examples from non-Anglo countries (maybe South Korea or Singapore or UAE) to see if the trend also holds there.
> No reason uprooting your life
Labor rights in China aren’t great. It’s 50k in Germany for nearly half the weekly hours.
alephnerd · 5h ago
> but I’d like to see more examples from non-Anglo countries (maybe South Korea or Singapore or UAE)
UAE and Singapore will most likely see a spike - Chinese and Indian companies expanded temporary hiring and postings in those geos, along with moving HQs in order to access western financial markets.
> Labor rights in China aren’t great. It’s 50k in Germany for nearly half the weekly hours.
Sure, but CoL is lower, career progression is better, you are closer to your family, and you don't face culture shock in a country with a small Asian community. And these are white collar jobs we are talking about.
The US still has some pull factor due to high salaries and large diaspora communities, but that is fading as immigration has become much more complex and domestic options are getting better.
If you want to start a startup, ironically it's easier to raise in China or India compared to Germany now because of larger capital markets and better linkages with financial hubs like Singapore, London, UAE, etc.
im3w1l · 5h ago
It might also reflect a weakening job market in the west.
alephnerd · 5h ago
True, but a lot of that is also aligned with the tech industry hiring boom abroad.
Outside the US white collar salaries stagnated, and in the US white collar hiring cooled.
jajko · 3h ago
A lot of people think like that, thats true. Not really grokking them, the systems in western countries is much more advanced, be it social or medical services, better education for kids, much safer and so on.
But as an expact myself who decided he left his home country for good and for good reasons, I've seen it often, more often in blue collar jobs. Its a lot easier if such folks never actually left and didnt experience better life as a whole elsewhere. Then accepting lower standards becomes much harder, there is only so far one can get by throwing money at problems.
alephnerd · 2h ago
Yep! Exactly! The decrease in brain drain doesn't necccesarily imply broader economic equality.
Earning $30k in China or India where median household incomes are $5k and $3k respectively means you are afforded a lot of luxuries that makes moving to a higher paying developed country difficult.
People who aren't able to work high salary STEM jobs are desperate for a better option, and that's the majority in those countries.
readthenotes1 · 5h ago
Fascinating that the net change globally is so much more than for the US according to their data.
The title should be something like "US still a strong draw in spite of global cool down"
There are so many "reports" now that show from 2020-2025 and act like some insane change has occurred when using the insanity of 2020-2021 as a baseline. Extend the chart back to 2000ish so we can see if this is an actual change or just a return to normal.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
It's like comparing the job market in 2017 with that in 2010. A lot changes in 6 years in the tech industry.
But if they have very similar numbers, than that's strong evidence that things have not in fact changed much.
"History" is often relevant, and depending on the claim it can be very relevant.
When the start is something like October 11, 2023 and the end is not today; that is usually a big tell.
White Collar hiring and salary growth has picked up in China, India, ASEAN, etc. Living standards for the average person won't be hot, but if you are working in a STEM field you are earning on the higher end, and by mid-career you can afford to insulate yourself from some of the worst aspects living in gated communities or suburbs.
Azerbaijan might be a different story, as you guys might be getting some contagion from Turkiye and Russia's economic slowdown.
What this appear so the showing is that brain drain is starting to slow down as white collar salaries have risen in countries like China, South Korea, India, Romania, etc.
No reason uprooting your life to earn $50k in Germany or $150k in the US when you can earn $30k in China, Romania, or India.
I've been saying this for a long time, glad to see this observation is starting to be validated.
> No reason uprooting your life
Labor rights in China aren’t great. It’s 50k in Germany for nearly half the weekly hours.
UAE and Singapore will most likely see a spike - Chinese and Indian companies expanded temporary hiring and postings in those geos, along with moving HQs in order to access western financial markets.
> Labor rights in China aren’t great. It’s 50k in Germany for nearly half the weekly hours.
Sure, but CoL is lower, career progression is better, you are closer to your family, and you don't face culture shock in a country with a small Asian community. And these are white collar jobs we are talking about.
The US still has some pull factor due to high salaries and large diaspora communities, but that is fading as immigration has become much more complex and domestic options are getting better.
If you want to start a startup, ironically it's easier to raise in China or India compared to Germany now because of larger capital markets and better linkages with financial hubs like Singapore, London, UAE, etc.
Outside the US white collar salaries stagnated, and in the US white collar hiring cooled.
But as an expact myself who decided he left his home country for good and for good reasons, I've seen it often, more often in blue collar jobs. Its a lot easier if such folks never actually left and didnt experience better life as a whole elsewhere. Then accepting lower standards becomes much harder, there is only so far one can get by throwing money at problems.
Earning $30k in China or India where median household incomes are $5k and $3k respectively means you are afforded a lot of luxuries that makes moving to a higher paying developed country difficult.
People who aren't able to work high salary STEM jobs are desperate for a better option, and that's the majority in those countries.
The title should be something like "US still a strong draw in spite of global cool down"