i hope more overlapping regulations than what energy star covered
bobmcnamara · 32d ago
Energy star is going away.
fn-mote · 32d ago
Author doesn’t even compare it to a second solution.
Interesting to know, but I just use a hot key to attempt reconfiguration if something goes wrong. Works for me even if it’s not a sign Linux is ready for non-technical users.
secure · 32d ago
Yes, I didn’t want to analyze and compare different solutions, I just wanted to share the joy of finding a solution that works well for me.
Using hot keys is nice, but hot keys (intentionally) don’t work while my screen is locked. I contemplated mapping an xrandr call onto a smart button (Shelly Button 1, essentially triggering an HTTP request), but in the end grobi has the same effect and is even more convenient than having to press buttons.
wokkel · 32d ago
My windows laptop disconnects my monitor sometimes seemingly randomly. A sign that windows is not ready for non-technical users?
hulitu · 27d ago
> A sign that windows is not ready for non-technical users?
No, just normal Microsoft prioritizing features over fixing bugs. I have a "shit_win_bugs" bookmarks folder which is growing in size every 1-2 months.
JCattheATM · 32d ago
Hardly, given the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
conception · 32d ago
You’ve never had to support windows non-technical end users I see.
JCattheATM · 32d ago
That's a silly assumption, and a silly point. By that reasoning, no OS is suitable for non technical users.
aaplok · 32d ago
> By that reasoning, no OS is suitable for non technical users.
That was the point GP was trying to make (a bit snarkily and sarcastically) in response to the argument that Linux is not suitable for nontechnical users.
JCattheATM · 32d ago
Right, but GP is dead wrong. Windows and MacOS are far more suitable for non technical users on average. Mint is great for people that have standard hardware and need nothing more than a browser, but it's still not on par with the big two.
aaplok · 32d ago
That Linux is less accessible than windows or MacOS may be true (I personally agree with you about windows, less so about macOS), but if an argument is not acceptable about windows, it can't be accepted about Linux either. If both OSs seem to suffer from difficult-to-fix issues when turning monitors on and off, that can't be the reason why Windows is more non-tech friendly.
I think that this is the bulk of the argument here.
JCattheATM · 31d ago
> but if an argument is not acceptable about windows, it can't be accepted about Linux either. I
I think it can, because even if there is an issue on Windows, it's likely still going to be much easier to resolve than on Linux, e.g. no editing files, no command prompt, etc.
justinrubek · 31d ago
I can't really agree with that on windows. When I've had to use it, I've always had gnarly issues that I don't think I'd be able to deal with if I wasn't knowledgeable about computers. Sometimes, even then, basic functionality just doesn't work at all. It's further complicated by the software not giving proper insight into what is going wrong so as to make it impossible to deal with.
JCattheATM · 31d ago
It can have issues, sure, but there is a reason it's on 90% of computers and has been for 30 years or so - it's still easier than most of the competition.
hulitu · 27d ago
> there is a reason it's on 90% of computers and has been for 30 years or so
yes, bribery and lobby.
Remember where Gates went to Munich to "convince" the city council that Microsoft Windows is better than Limux ?
JCattheATM · 27d ago
No, it's because it actually is easier and more intuitive.
Linux is out of the running entirely except for people that need nothing more than a browser and media player.
MacOS has a kooky paradigm that people get used to, but isn't as intuitive as the classic launcher menu and task bar approach.
Windows had a ton of issues, and not particularly user friendly error messages for a while, but since XP it's been the leader in usability.
Of course with 11 they are really doing all they can to throw all that away...
conception · 32d ago
No one up to iOS v14 or so ever asked me for help on using it or really fixing it. MacOS passed the grandma test for me and generally requires less user support. But iOS under jobs was a gold standard in usability.
JCattheATM · 31d ago
I've found non tech users find MacOS far less intuitive honestly. I do think the Windows paradigm is probably the most intuitive, with a startbar launcher and apps being clearly separated in the taskbar and not grouped together under a bouncing icon.
arghwhat · 32d ago
> Does grobi work on Wayland?
See kanshi, which has a similar rule matching approach.
modzu · 32d ago
im sensitive to coil whine and i hear it everywhere : computers, light bulbs, phone chargers, you name it and if im in the same room as electronics i hear a high pitched squealing that others seem not to notice or care about. its inescapable and it sucks
bobmcnamara · 32d ago
I used to be. One high speed camera I could tell the frame rate consistency from the flash recharge whine.
But one day a young engineer asked if I could hear my circuit when the load changed.
I could not. I have become what I hated. The cycle continues.
raverbashing · 32d ago
So once again you need to DYI your monitor configuration for Linux that for some reason works out-of-the-box pretty much in Windows and MacOSX
sigh
And that's for X11, which was built in a 70s model while Wayland leisurely moves forward
fsh · 32d ago
Both Gnome and KDE handle (un-)plugging external monitors just fine. And Wayland has been the standard in all relevant desktop distributions for a couple of years now.
secure · 32d ago
The Dell UP3218K monitor I describe does not work “out of the box” on any OS. Even finding a GPU that can drive it at all is tricky.
p_l · 32d ago
It should work with tiled output, so long as a) it reports tiled geometry in DisplayID b) the driver handles it right.
Then it should show up as single display.
It's also how Apple XDR display presents itself to MacOS (two DisplayPort 1.4 tunnels over USB4, tiled layout in DisplayID).
I suspect it's possible that it doesn't have a valid tiled geometry block, but that's something that was already handled right when first 4k displays landed, so...
ikurei · 32d ago
I use both Linux and Mac, and in my experience Mac's handling of multi-monitor setups and, specially, of them changing, is only slightly better than Linux's.
For most situations you do not need to do anything difficult to plug any number of monitors to a Linux computer with a modern, full-featured distro, other than arranging them. Mac does a better job of remembering your setup and adapting to a monitor disappearing, but it's not that much better.
I'm still not sure I understand why the author needed this tool, may be because they have more than one computer plugged into the same monitor?
No comments yet
sprash · 32d ago
> while Wayland leisurely moves forward
Debateable. But it sure started with huge step backwards. On X11 all relevant functions are at least standardized within the xrandr protocol. On Wayland you don't even have that. So it really depends on the compositor if it works or not where each is doing its own thing which is just crazy. I prefer the 70s standardization model of "mechanism, not policy".
hulitu · 27d ago
> for some reason works out-of-the-box pretty much in Windows
mostly.
With first releases of Win 10, it was more than challenging.
ryao · 32d ago
X11 was made in September 1987, long after the 70s. All of the older ways of doing graphics were killed by it due to technical merit.
raverbashing · 32d ago
Thanks I didn't realize it was so new
> older ways of doing graphics were killed by it due to technical merit.
The issue here is that a server/client architecture complicates things a lot when it's all the same machine and the security model is different
That's absurd. There are regulations on standby power.
https://dl.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esuprt_electronics_...
>Power Consumption
>0.2 W (Off Mode)
>0.3 W (Standby Mode)
Doesn't seem to be an isolated case:
https://www.dell.com/community/en/conversations/monitors/up3...
>UP3216Q, drawing 23 watts in Standby? (2019).
I guess a takeaway from OP is to measure your actual standby power draw.
http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.h...
https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000132935/the-20th-...
Interesting to know, but I just use a hot key to attempt reconfiguration if something goes wrong. Works for me even if it’s not a sign Linux is ready for non-technical users.
Using hot keys is nice, but hot keys (intentionally) don’t work while my screen is locked. I contemplated mapping an xrandr call onto a smart button (Shelly Button 1, essentially triggering an HTTP request), but in the end grobi has the same effect and is even more convenient than having to press buttons.
No, just normal Microsoft prioritizing features over fixing bugs. I have a "shit_win_bugs" bookmarks folder which is growing in size every 1-2 months.
That was the point GP was trying to make (a bit snarkily and sarcastically) in response to the argument that Linux is not suitable for nontechnical users.
I think that this is the bulk of the argument here.
I think it can, because even if there is an issue on Windows, it's likely still going to be much easier to resolve than on Linux, e.g. no editing files, no command prompt, etc.
yes, bribery and lobby. Remember where Gates went to Munich to "convince" the city council that Microsoft Windows is better than Limux ?
Linux is out of the running entirely except for people that need nothing more than a browser and media player.
MacOS has a kooky paradigm that people get used to, but isn't as intuitive as the classic launcher menu and task bar approach.
Windows had a ton of issues, and not particularly user friendly error messages for a while, but since XP it's been the leader in usability.
Of course with 11 they are really doing all they can to throw all that away...
See kanshi, which has a similar rule matching approach.
But one day a young engineer asked if I could hear my circuit when the load changed.
I could not. I have become what I hated. The cycle continues.
sigh
And that's for X11, which was built in a 70s model while Wayland leisurely moves forward
Then it should show up as single display.
It's also how Apple XDR display presents itself to MacOS (two DisplayPort 1.4 tunnels over USB4, tiled layout in DisplayID).
I suspect it's possible that it doesn't have a valid tiled geometry block, but that's something that was already handled right when first 4k displays landed, so...
For most situations you do not need to do anything difficult to plug any number of monitors to a Linux computer with a modern, full-featured distro, other than arranging them. Mac does a better job of remembering your setup and adapting to a monitor disappearing, but it's not that much better.
I'm still not sure I understand why the author needed this tool, may be because they have more than one computer plugged into the same monitor?
No comments yet
Debateable. But it sure started with huge step backwards. On X11 all relevant functions are at least standardized within the xrandr protocol. On Wayland you don't even have that. So it really depends on the compositor if it works or not where each is doing its own thing which is just crazy. I prefer the 70s standardization model of "mechanism, not policy".
mostly. With first releases of Win 10, it was more than challenging.
> older ways of doing graphics were killed by it due to technical merit.
The issue here is that a server/client architecture complicates things a lot when it's all the same machine and the security model is different