Can Software Be Durable?

27 maraoz 31 7/20/2025, 1:49:22 PM
What would you change about software development if your apps must last 50 years? What must software developers do differently to build apps that will still work 50 years from now? Can software be durable?

Comments (31)

JonChesterfield · 3h ago
There's fifty year old simulation software in use today. I ported some to semi-modern x64 and learned things I've gratefully forgotten about floating point in the process. Also that "VAX" and "SUN" Unix behaved differently, for whatever that's worth.

I would say that was viable because it had zero dependencies and could be built with the equivalent of gfortran *.f77, provided one changed the source in plausible looking ways first.

If your software relies on fetching things from the Internet it is probably doomed within a year or so and surely within a decade.

Wouldn't bet on today's up and coming language still existing either. C89? Will probably still build fine with some compiler passing appropriate flags.

Hardcoding x64 or aarch64 assumptions likely bad for longevity too, as both are surely gone before 2075 ticks around, though equally I couldn't find a VAX and still got that code running. So that's more about minimising the cost of porting rather than anything fundamental.

phkahler · 3h ago
>> I would say that was viable because it had zero dependencies and could be built with the equivalent of gfortran *.f77, provided one changed the source in plausible looking ways first.

Came to say this. Minimize your dependencies. Software can last forever, but everything around it changes and can break or otherwise cause incompatibilities.

al_borland · 4h ago
Stop chasing trends and changing for the sake of change. At my job, management is constantly forcing us to reinvent the wheel. The systems we used 15 years ago would still work fine, and be very robust and mature by now. Instead, with each re-write new gaps and bugs come to the surface. For some reason we choose to live in Groundhog Day, instead of making the choice to prioritize cheap, boring stability. Each new solution feels more fragile than the last. When we know someone will tell us to throw it all out in 2 years, there is little incentive to prioritize durability.
bullen · 1h ago
C and Java are the most durable in different ways.

- C gives you the least likely to be broken by evolution of OSes without added effort, because they need backwards compatibility.

- Java will be even more durable as it can be implemented/fixed after you compile your software. I ran my games compiled 20 years ago on a Risc-V computer flawlessly = not a single glitch! That said it requires JVM efforts to be maintained.

Oracle is heading the wrong direction in every aspect (removing fundamental features like sandbox without a clear path to replacement), but the bytecode standard will prevail, ahead of clones like C# and WASM.

That said if you make a VM why not have it JiT/AoT on all 3 bytecodes?

Either way the JVM is the final emulator, as long as it's maintained.

jfk13 · 4h ago
An example worth considering is TeX, which is now 43 years old (considering only TeX82; the earlier TeX78 was a substantially different piece of software). There has been some maintenance over the years, it's true, including a few feature additions in 1990 (TeX 3.0), but I would suggest it has shown itself to be extremely durable.
WillAdams · 4h ago
At the heart of this are two wildly different technologies:

- Literate Programming which was developed so as to work around limitations of the Pascal development stack as it existed when the project was begun: http://literateprogramming.com/

- web2c which allows converting .web source into a format which may be compiled by pretty much _any_ C compiler

LP was described by Knuth as more important than TeX, but it suffers a bit from folks not understanding that it's not so much documentation (if it were, then _The TeXbook_ would be the typeset source of plain.tex) as code commentary only useful to developers working to extend/make use of the application --- there really does need to be some sort of system for manual documentation, but I suspect that it will continue to be a talented technical writer for the foreseeable future.

robin_reala · 5h ago
We’re coming up on 50 years for Space Invaders. We can say that it’s endured because:

- it’s self-contained: it works without dependencies, and with the hardware it was designed for

- there’s an ongoing need: peope want to continue playing Space Invaders

- it’s transposable: the environment it runs in can be recreated through additional layers (emulators here)

- it’s recreatable: the core concepts behind Space Invaders can be reimplemented in the prevailing contexts of the time

OhMeadhbh · 4h ago
Modern software development started for me in 1985 when we disassembled the Choplifter arcade game they mistakenly put in the college dorm with several student engineers. Within 15 minutes of them dropping it off, we had the back door open and the eproms lifted from the motherboard. Within a couple of hours we had reverse engineered the code, modified it for a free game hack, burned new eproms and put back in service.

In honor of thr 40th anniversary of this hack, I recently played the stock version in an emulator on a web page. Code lives on, I suppose.

supportengineer · 4h ago
Talented people with access to resources! And no fear of punishment ( fines, expulsion, etc. )
continuational · 4h ago
Yeah, Super Mario Bros is 40+ years old by now. Runs just fine in an emulator, even if you can't find the original hardware.

Modern SaaS apps can't be run once the company shuts it down. You don't have the code, not even the executable.

mamcx · 57m ago
You need to answer this from many directions:

* Hardware * Network * Storage * Electricity

Before go to software, because if the hardware break then what?

After it, you need an OS where you can be certain don't depend on the cloud or phone home ever, then after that you probably need a decent set of:

* Solid programing lang: Like Rust * Or very barebones: Like C * A RDBMS like sqlite

Set of tooling like code editor, image, etc

aristofun · 5h ago
This is based on fundamentalky wrong assumption that software is something like a hammer or a bulldozer.

Software is more like a plumbing. It a) wears out b) requires maintenance c) people maintaining it is integrated part of the whole system.

OhMeadhbh · 4h ago
I think it depends on the project and the programmer. Code I wrote for a Nuclear Power plant is still there. Ditto for the code I wrote for the steel mill. And you can't find ATM machines w/ my code in them easily, but you see them from time to time. Code I wrote to go into the DoD's CAC card is still there, even though the hardware went through a new Rev a decade ago, so it surprises me to say this, but "yay, java?" Some of the code I put in Firefox to support TLS 1.1 & 1.2 is still there, but most of it got refactored out a while ago (and thank $DEITY Brian(?) replaced the old libpkix library that had been in Netscape navigator and then Firefox for about 20 years.) Much of the POTS network has been replaced since the 80s, but I'm told there are one or two switches I contributed to while at DSCCC are still around.

But on the other hand, my 1993 1 character patch to the Linux kernel was replaced in around 96 or 97. I hope to whatever benevolent Supreme being exists that the crap pyth*n code I added to Second Life has been replaced. No one still uses Palm Pilots or Handspring Treos anymore, so I doubt that code has much life in it. Virtually every web app I wrote is dead, but they were fun to write, so whatever. And the code I added to a couple of satellites is dead (though my ground station code is still alive.) I bet that some of the avionics code in the cockpit is hard to update as well.

So... it depends... my nuke plant code still has another decade probably and my old room-mate's anti-lock braking code will probably outlast us all. Embedded systems are probably more long-lived than the Facebook front page. Some are just hard to update cause you can't easily get to the machine, others are hard due to regulatory or compliance reasons.

tertle950 · 4h ago
Please explain how a set of instructions for a computer can "wear out" and "require maintenance", Word 2007 still writes documents fine enough for me
Espressosaurus · 4h ago
Programs run on an operating system, the operating system runs on real hardware.

The real hardware gets old, wears out, parts become difficult and perhaps even impossible to source.

The operating system accumulates known vulnerabilities until it's no longer safe to connect to anything.

You can work around the latter two problems with emulation, but it's never the same--display technology if nothing else is different and presents differently. Emulation is dependent on the fidelity of the emulation. It's much harder to make it exactly cycle-and-timing accurate, though in most cases (like Word 2007) it doesn't matter.

The instructions might exist, but they are not runnable without other supporting infrastructure.

This also ignores programs that are wholly reliant on third party compute and instructions you have no access to that can be shut down and no longer available, like your MMOs.

thom · 4h ago
al_borland · 3h ago
Security vulnerabilities only really matter if you're going to have the system online.

George R.R. Martin still writes using WordStar 4.0 in DOS.

I remember reading a news story years ago about a guy who brought a vintage Mac from the 80s into the Apple Store to see if it could be a little faster. He had been using it for his accounting (or something) for the past 30 years.

Air gapped systems like these, with some degree of physical security, are pretty safe.

poisonborz · 3h ago
Software is and ideally must always be a hammer. It is only since the last 15 years that monopolist platforms try to trick us believing they are not.
NeutralForest · 3h ago
To be fair, the surface of software has gone through the roof. Unix utils like `grep` or `find` can be hammers while a retailer's website with varying promotions, inventory and overall content needs to be maintained, moreso like a car.
scarface_74 · 3h ago
The last 15 years was 2010. I’ve been in the industry since 1996 and programming as a hobbyist since 1986. Computers change, operating systems change. It’s not like I was using the original AppleWorks 3.0 on my Apple //e in 2010, or ClarisWorks from 1996 on my LCII.

While you can still buy Microsoft Office once and use it “forever”, I much prefer the $129 a year, 5 users deal with 1GB of online storage per user and each user can use office between their computers, online and on mobile regardless of operating system.

A desktop only office suite would do me no good as I go back and forth between platforms.

poisonborz · 1h ago
I reflect on this as a user: I've been a Windows user since around 1996, and most of my workflow is unchanged, I still use the ~same software (new versions of course, but those old versions would mostly still run). This could be even more true for Linux. Apple had a wilder ride, but you can always emulate. This isn't about user experience, more about a mindset, that newer generation seems to tragically forget. Once you buy a service, you give up control and ownership. Same way how artists, works and prices constantly change on streaming platforms. On the surface it seems easier, but...

For your example, Microsoft can alter that price any time it sees fit, discontinue platforms you use, alter the interface drastically or cut a crucial feature in tomorrow's update... I wouldn't cope with such, and am sorry for those who must.

gblargg · 4h ago
Software is a design. In the same conditions it never wears out. As conditions change it tends to work less and less well unless modified, as expected.
poisonborz · 3h ago
Use the least amount of dependencies, only old mature stable APIs, obviously offline only. This way you can be pretty sure the environment can be easily emulated.
codingdave · 5h ago
I've been in this industry now for 35 years, and while there is some tech from my starting point that is still around, works fine, and could still be used effectively today... few people know how to use it, so from a pragmatic perspective, it is useless.

So your starting point for this question needs to focus on that evolution of talent. Your app needs to be well-defined and compartmentalized so that each layer can be refactored when (not if) the talent pool dwindles to nothing. You need to develop a strong refactoring culture not only to handle the reality that the best thing you deliver today will be tech debt before the 50 years are up, but that whatever problem it is solving today will likewise evolve.

The durability you seek needs to be ironically focused on change management.

ciconia · 4h ago
Simplify as much as possible and reduce the surface area: the least amount of code, the least amount of dependencies, the least amount of infrastructure.
comrade1234 · 5h ago
I do have a project that's been running about 25-years. But it's not static - new features are added, bugs are fixed, and it just keeps going. Some of the code and the overall architecture are original but there's plenty of new.

That said though, the vast majority of projects I've been on are probably no longer in existence. This is why I take a more casual approach to most projects - I see it as somewhat temporary and it doesn't make sense to put so much effort into a clean project.

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rcxdude · 5h ago
Given existing examples, be useful (or appealing) enough relative to the complexity of the ecosystem it depends on that people are willing to maintain the means to run it, whether by porting, compatibility layers, or full emulation. Being open-source helps a lot there. Being small and/or efficient enough to run acceptably even with these layers can also help.
rickcarlino · 6h ago
I've thought about this problem also, and I would love to see in-depth analysis. It would be important to pick hardware that has been widely deployed and can be easily sourced in the future. Documentation must be written in a timeless manner rather than a concise manner. Dependencies should be kept minimal, even OS level system call dependencies.
maraoz · 5h ago
"Documentation must be written in a timeless manner rather than a concise manner." <- loved this!
trevorLane · 4h ago
use COBOL..
OhMeadhbh · 4h ago
You laugh, but I was paid a decent hourly rate last year to update a COBOL program. About a decade ago they moved it into a mercurial repo, so I couldn't see history before that. I can't imagine the original app being less than 40 years old (probably 50.)