I still don't really understand this story. I know that ICE invaded the factory and detained a few hundred people. They were vanished away and presumably being speedily sent back to Korea. Sure.
But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa, or whether they were given the chance to demonstrate their legitimacy, or whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process.
I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs. But in a group of a few hundred people it's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing.
PhantomHour · 57m ago
> But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa
This is because ICE is being particularly tight lipped about those details.
The New York Times got their hands on the records for 11 detainees.
6 on B1/B2 visas.
4 on 90-day waivers.
1 Unknown.
ICE claims visa violations, but the records do not state what work the detainees were actually doing. This is especially relevant for the B1 visas, which do permit certain business activities (including applicable ones for this situation; Meetings, trainings, "installation, service, and repair of foreign-bought machinery".
Of particular note is that in one case (out of these 11), ICE's records state there was no visa violation. The worker was deported anyway, forced into a "voluntary" departure.
Personal opinion: The degree to which hyundai may or may not have violated the law or operated within previously-tolerated gray areas remains to be seen. But the actions of ICE here are not those of a competent government organisation.
There should be clear records, they should be able to readily answer press questions. And yet they don't.
Worse still is that one person deported despite there being, even by ICE's own admission, no visa violation. Hard to assume good faith in incomplete or withheld records with such shit going on.
And what are other foreign companies to do with this? "Move your manufacturing to America! Oh btw even if you follow all laws to the letter a local chud may deport your workers for being not white enough and ruin the entire project" is an interesting sales pitch.
lazide · 10m ago
The point is not to be effective (at the stated goals), or follow the laws, or be competent at following the laws.
The goal is to ‘look tough’ for the base, demonstrate the power to act without having to follow the laws, and overall - inspire fear. To extract concessions and inspire fear based loyalty.
The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?
3D30497420 · 52m ago
I imagine their argument will be "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible.
Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC", "woke" policies, etc. Rinse and repeat.
FirmwareBurner · 14m ago
> "Well, they should have hired Americans", even if that is completely infeasible
Why is it infeasible? It's a car assembly plant, not a semiconductor fab that requires niche advanced degrees only available in Taiwan.
Surely the required labor can be found across a country of 300 million, or easily trained from other adjacent careers that have lost workers due to economic driven redundancies.
>Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC"
Why shouldn't they be blamed? They're telling their voters there'll be a factory opening where they live and then the voters think "woo-hoo, more jobs for us" but then the bureaucrats are like "well, actually, those jobs will go towards foreigners, not to you". If you were them, wouldn't you be pissed too?
Funny how HN seems to be OK with foreigners being brough to take manufacturing jobs away from locals, but they throw a hissy rage fit when H1Bs are being brough to the US to take their tech jobs. Hypocrisy much?
ivan_gammel · 47m ago
Their argument was Trump personally delaying the departure by one day to ask if anyone wants to stay and train American workers. I.e. they understand they messed up, but don’t want to admit any mistake.
nerpderp82 · 6m ago
And arrested at gunpoint with helicopters flying overhead. This is only the start.
sysguest · 10m ago
idk after this fiasco, Hyundai will have a big time trouble finding competitive workers who would want to go to the USA...
I mean, prior to this, just a small possibility of being sent to the US was a big perk (job descriptions often highlighted this in bold fonts)
Hence, companies would rotate people to hush complaints ("that guy gets to go to the US more than me!")
now... if being sent could mean "you could be banned from entering/working in US", it's a big no-no
Anyway, this will mean extra costs + less competitive people going to the USA (they should be forced to go, so... it'll probably be people with career dead-ends, whom americans might not want to 'learn from'...)
the only fix to the issue: officially commit huuuuge working visa quota for s.koreans...
pjc50 · 23m ago
> whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process.
Well, no, but that's not how US immigration works any more, and never did at the border. Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights.
As a UK employee of a US multinational (+), I think I know what happened here, because it nearly happened to a colleague of mine. He went to visit HQ for a week, and made the mistake of saying at the border that he was coming to "work" rather than "business meetings". Non-visa travel generally allows the latter but not the former, even if the distinction isn't always clear.
It seems ludicrous that someone doing the same job for the same employer on the same IT systems suddenly becomes a criminal if they bring themselves and their laptop to HQ for a few days, and up until now this was always waived, along with simply observing that the person had a return ticket and a hotel. Now there's a much bigger risk if you say the "w" word.
I suspect what happens is that Hyundai sent over a bunch of Hyundai employees to get the Hyundai factory started, as everyone would expect, without going through the difficult and expensive process of securing short term work visas (which catgegory would this be anyway?)
(+) I suppose this makes me the evil offshoring taking all your jobs? Hi guys.
aeonfox · 1h ago
> Most of the people detained were South Korean nationals with the wrong kind of visas.
> I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs
Often Visa systems are overly complex and it's just a matter of bureaucracy making things impossible within a particular timeline. My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen.
All the same, I imagine this only worsens the risk assessment for the US as a place of investment and business.
vkou · 52m ago
> My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen.
You don't need to go that far. Simple incompetence, cruelty, a complete lack of accountability and a need to meet quota is a sufficient explanation.
sandworm101 · 43m ago
Like maybe someone other than Hyundai that makes electric cars? Reports said this raid took months to plan. Who had the president's ear a few months ago?
Though I cannot say it adds much clarity. Apparently, some people caught in the raid may have had valid visas. Unsurprisingly, the whole thing sounds like a poorly planned mess.
ChrisRR · 1h ago
Maybe the news reporters don't actually know whether they were there illegally
ilsubyeega · 1h ago
disclaimer: i'm native korean (living in south korea also)
> whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa
IIRC It appears that many of those arrested entered the country using ESTA which is tourism purposes only. They are likely subcontractors of this company.
> It's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing
I think it's due to the related investigation was conducted quickly, as most of them entered the country for the same purpose.
robertlagrant · 44m ago
> ESTA which is tourism purposes only
A simple look at the ESTA home page will tell you this isn't true. It's business or pleasure. The catch is it's only for trips up to 90 days.
izacus · 33m ago
Just to be clear - "business" doesn't mean "work". As in - you're not allowed to do your primary job function on such a visa.
rrobukef · 54m ago
An ESTA is not only for Tourism.
jrmcauliffe · 52m ago
I mean, it would be surprising. In what world does Hyundai want to build a multi billion dollar plant in a foreign country and subcontract to a 'sublegal operation' which still has to send foreign nationals, presumably experts in their specific fields along with housing them to 'cut costs'...?
secult · 1h ago
That's quite an insult! I wonder how many foreign workers (or foreigners in general) take the eventuality of getting "randomly" detained into account while travelling into USA.
sandworm101 · 40m ago
>> the eventuality of getting "randomly" detained into account while travelling into USA.
Absolutely every canadian crossing at a land border. The steady number of horror stories is keeping them away.
(Air travel is less impacted as canadian pre-clearance proceedures mean anyone rejected by ICE will not also be detained by them.)
eastbound · 1h ago
I do. Never been to US since the Patriot act, a have a several-million dollars small startup and would love to see Colorado and California, why not move there, but I’m just afraid of TSA.
On the other hand, I envy USA for enforcing their visas. Europe follows American criminality stats by 10 years, so when we used to mock USA for George Floyd, we’re now in it; for Korean shop owners, we’re now in it; For random knives in busses, we’re in it, and with school shootings, it’s just a matter of time until it happens.
And European people are much farther away from reaching the conclusion that law must be enforced in multicultural nations.
pjc50 · 20m ago
> mock USA for George Floyd
Crime committed by the police.
> Korean shop owners
What's criminal about Korean shops?
> school shootings
Gun control means no more school shootings. See Dunblane.
> law must be enforced in multicultural nations
Nobody ever said it shouldn't, but it has to be enforced in a fair and even-handed way.
4ggr0 · 56m ago
> that law must be enforced in multicultural nations
per usual it's the other cultures causing the fuss, right.
But every article I've read on this makes no statement about whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa, or whether they were given the chance to demonstrate their legitimacy, or whether any of these hundreds of people got to defend their case to a judge. Shouting "I'm here legally" while being rounded up by LEOs is not due process.
I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs. But in a group of a few hundred people it's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing.
This is because ICE is being particularly tight lipped about those details.
The New York Times got their hands on the records for 11 detainees. 6 on B1/B2 visas. 4 on 90-day waivers. 1 Unknown.
ICE claims visa violations, but the records do not state what work the detainees were actually doing. This is especially relevant for the B1 visas, which do permit certain business activities (including applicable ones for this situation; Meetings, trainings, "installation, service, and repair of foreign-bought machinery".
Of particular note is that in one case (out of these 11), ICE's records state there was no visa violation. The worker was deported anyway, forced into a "voluntary" departure.
(https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/12/business/economy/hyundai-...)
Personal opinion: The degree to which hyundai may or may not have violated the law or operated within previously-tolerated gray areas remains to be seen. But the actions of ICE here are not those of a competent government organisation.
There should be clear records, they should be able to readily answer press questions. And yet they don't.
Worse still is that one person deported despite there being, even by ICE's own admission, no visa violation. Hard to assume good faith in incomplete or withheld records with such shit going on.
And what are other foreign companies to do with this? "Move your manufacturing to America! Oh btw even if you follow all laws to the letter a local chud may deport your workers for being not white enough and ruin the entire project" is an interesting sales pitch.
The goal is to ‘look tough’ for the base, demonstrate the power to act without having to follow the laws, and overall - inspire fear. To extract concessions and inspire fear based loyalty.
The weirdest part to me is that people still don’t seem to understand this?
Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC", "woke" policies, etc. Rinse and repeat.
Why is it infeasible? It's a car assembly plant, not a semiconductor fab that requires niche advanced degrees only available in Taiwan.
Surely the required labor can be found across a country of 300 million, or easily trained from other adjacent careers that have lost workers due to economic driven redundancies.
>Then, when these places stay poor, they'll blame foreign governments, Democrats, "bureaucrats in DC"
Why shouldn't they be blamed? They're telling their voters there'll be a factory opening where they live and then the voters think "woo-hoo, more jobs for us" but then the bureaucrats are like "well, actually, those jobs will go towards foreigners, not to you". If you were them, wouldn't you be pissed too?
Funny how HN seems to be OK with foreigners being brough to take manufacturing jobs away from locals, but they throw a hissy rage fit when H1Bs are being brough to the US to take their tech jobs. Hypocrisy much?
I mean, prior to this, just a small possibility of being sent to the US was a big perk (job descriptions often highlighted this in bold fonts) Hence, companies would rotate people to hush complaints ("that guy gets to go to the US more than me!")
now... if being sent could mean "you could be banned from entering/working in US", it's a big no-no
Anyway, this will mean extra costs + less competitive people going to the USA (they should be forced to go, so... it'll probably be people with career dead-ends, whom americans might not want to 'learn from'...)
the only fix to the issue: officially commit huuuuge working visa quota for s.koreans...
Well, no, but that's not how US immigration works any more, and never did at the border. Everyone very loudly points out that non-citizens don't have constitutional rights.
As a UK employee of a US multinational (+), I think I know what happened here, because it nearly happened to a colleague of mine. He went to visit HQ for a week, and made the mistake of saying at the border that he was coming to "work" rather than "business meetings". Non-visa travel generally allows the latter but not the former, even if the distinction isn't always clear.
It seems ludicrous that someone doing the same job for the same employer on the same IT systems suddenly becomes a criminal if they bring themselves and their laptop to HQ for a few days, and up until now this was always waived, along with simply observing that the person had a return ticket and a hotel. Now there's a much bigger risk if you say the "w" word.
I suspect what happens is that Hyundai sent over a bunch of Hyundai employees to get the Hyundai factory started, as everyone would expect, without going through the difficult and expensive process of securing short term work visas (which catgegory would this be anyway?)
(+) I suppose this makes me the evil offshoring taking all your jobs? Hi guys.
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2025/09/10/the-ice-r...
> I'm not particularly sympathetic to Hyundai here, and it wouldn't be surprising if they subcontracted a sublegal operation to cut costs
Often Visa systems are overly complex and it's just a matter of bureaucracy making things impossible within a particular timeline. My cynical lens on this is that someone with a vested interest (like a competing company or a lobbyist from a competing industry) that has the ear of the administration has made this happen.
All the same, I imagine this only worsens the risk assessment for the US as a place of investment and business.
You don't need to go that far. Simple incompetence, cruelty, a complete lack of accountability and a need to meet quota is a sufficient explanation.
Though I cannot say it adds much clarity. Apparently, some people caught in the raid may have had valid visas. Unsurprisingly, the whole thing sounds like a poorly planned mess.
> whether any of these hundreds of people were actually working without an appropriate visa
IIRC It appears that many of those arrested entered the country using ESTA which is tourism purposes only. They are likely subcontractors of this company.
> It's quite hard to imagine none of them have cases even worth hearing
I think it's due to the related investigation was conducted quickly, as most of them entered the country for the same purpose.
A simple look at the ESTA home page will tell you this isn't true. It's business or pleasure. The catch is it's only for trips up to 90 days.
Absolutely every canadian crossing at a land border. The steady number of horror stories is keeping them away.
(Air travel is less impacted as canadian pre-clearance proceedures mean anyone rejected by ICE will not also be detained by them.)
On the other hand, I envy USA for enforcing their visas. Europe follows American criminality stats by 10 years, so when we used to mock USA for George Floyd, we’re now in it; for Korean shop owners, we’re now in it; For random knives in busses, we’re in it, and with school shootings, it’s just a matter of time until it happens.
And European people are much farther away from reaching the conclusion that law must be enforced in multicultural nations.
Crime committed by the police.
> Korean shop owners
What's criminal about Korean shops?
> school shootings
Gun control means no more school shootings. See Dunblane.
> law must be enforced in multicultural nations
Nobody ever said it shouldn't, but it has to be enforced in a fair and even-handed way.
per usual it's the other cultures causing the fuss, right.
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