My Ideal Array Language

92 bobajeff 36 8/4/2025, 1:05:08 PM ashermancinelli.com ↗

Comments (36)

adregan · 4h ago
The author of this post was the guest on the most recent episode of the podcast The Array Cast

https://www.arraycast.com/episodes/episode111-ideal-array-la...

abcd_f · 5h ago
> User-Extensible Rank Polymorphism

> IMO this is what makes something an array language.

Great to hear. So what is it?

preommr · 5h ago
Not op, but I assume it means that there's rank polymorphism (i.e. data can be of arbitrary dimensions, and there's support for things like functions working on both N-dimensions, without having to specify n, or maybe setting constraints on n), and that the polymorphism can be used on the programmer side (so it's not limited to just a handful of language builtins) through the oop equivalent of subclasses and interfaces.
goldenCeasar · 29m ago
A question, would you interpret this as rank polymorphism?

  schema do
    input do
      array :regions do
        float :tax_rate
        array :offices do
          float :col_adjustment
          array :employees do
            float :salary
            float :rating
          end
        end
      end
    end

    trait :high_performer, input.regions.offices.employees.rating > 4.5
    
    value :bonus do
      on high_performer, input.regions.offices.employees.salary * 0.25
      base input.regions.offices.employees.salary * 0.10
    end
    
    value :final_pay,
      (input.regions.offices.employees.salary + bonus * input.regions.offices.col_adjustment) *
      (1 - input.regions.tax_rate)
  end

  result = schema.from(nested_data)[:final_pay]
  # => [[[91_000, 63_700], [58_500]], [[71_225]]]
djoldman · 3h ago
The programmer can define functions that operate on matrices without having to be explicit about the number of dimensions and possibly (types of data, size of data, or length).

Example 1: A function that can take as input a 4x2x8 matrix or a 3x7 matrix.

Example 2: A function that can take as input a 4x2x8 matrix and a 3x7 matrix and output a third matrix.

tomsmeding · 1h ago
Rank polymorphism means that a function can be polymorphic in the additional dimensions of arrays. For example, if you write a function that takes a 2x3 and a 4x5 array, it can also work on 10x15x2x3 and 10x15x4x5 arrays by broadcasting.

If rank polymorphism results in accepting both 4x2x8 and 3x7, then that means the function was a function on elements to begin with. Which is possible, but not the most interesting application of rank polymorphism.

almostgotcaught · 3h ago
> A function that can take as input a 4x2x8 matrix and a 3x7 matrix and output a third matrix.

which shows that this feature request is complete jibberish

rscho · 46m ago
Why gibberish ? It's a common feature in both array languages and Iverson ghosts, and many find it extremely useful.
CapsAdmin · 3h ago
game math libraries often have this (and glsl gpu shader language), like "2 * vec3(1,2,3)" results in "vec3(2,4,6)"

There are other cases like adding vectors to matrices and so on, but in the end this logic is defined in some custom add operator overload on a class or object in the language.

(I had no idea what it meant either until i searched for examples..)

goldenCeasar · 2h ago
Funny, on another totally unrelated domain (business logic/rules engines) I was building something very very related - array broadcasting with semantic preservation through arbitrary nesting levels
nromiun · 4h ago

  ⊢×0≠∧˝˘∧⌜∧˝           # Marshall & Dzaima (tacit!)
  (≠⥊∧´)˘{×(⌾⍉∧)0≠} # Dzaima & Rampoina
  {×(∧˝˘∧≢⥊∧˝)0≠}     # Dzaima
Call me old fashioned and stuck in C style syntax but I can't imagine anyone describing this as beautiful art.
mlochbaum · 3h ago
Well, do you know how it works? Don't judge a book by its cover and all. Although none of these are entirely aiming for elegance. The first is code golf and the other two have some performance hacks that I doubt are even good any more, but replacing ∧≢⥊ with ∧⌜ in the last gets you something decent (personally I'm more in the "utilitarian code is never art" camp, but I'd have no reason to direct that at any specific language).

The double-struck characters have disappeared from the second and third lines creating a fun puzzle. Original post https://www.ashermancinelli.com/csblog/2022-5-2-BQN-reflecti... has the answers.

badlibrarian · 3h ago
When the junior programmers start saying "Turing complete" or the academics build a DSL in Julia that uses RegEx to parse Logic Symbols and stuffs the result in variables that use ancient characters that don't appear on your keyboard, it's a sure sign of imminent progress. Bonus if the PhD with nine years of schooling and five months of PHP experience at Facebook starts using emoji in commit messages.
hinkley · 1h ago
“irony! Oh, no, no, we don't get that here. See, uh, people ski topless here while smoking dope, so irony's not really a, a high priority. We haven't had any irony here since about, uh, '83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was tired of being stared at.”
rscho · 41m ago
This type of syntax allows rapid iteration when looking at different implementations and experimenting with array problems. It should be thought of more as math notation than general programming.
skydhash · 2h ago
Array Programming is an acquired taste, but once you do, solutions can be extremely simple, both to write and to explain.

Think about using matrix to describe geometric transformations instead of using standard functions.

ashleyn · 3h ago
icen · 3h ago
It is BQN, a descendant language
pavlov · 3h ago
Why is it BQN instead of BQM? Clearly the idea was to increment every letter from APL, but then they had to go one further on the third letter.
BoiledCabbage · 5m ago
This actual answer according the the author realized after he already liked the name.

He created it intending to be +1 of APL. Accidentally came up with BQN instead of BQM. Sat with that for 1hr, really liked the name, then realized that it should be BQM which he hated, so he stuck with BQN.

That said, it's and incredibly designed language. I honestly have never read any language (especially not designed by a single person) with the level of creative thought as he put into BQN. Some really incredible insights and deep understanding. It's amazing reading his posts / documentation about it. The focus on ergonomics, brand new constructs and the consistency/coherence of how all of his decisions fit together is really impressive.

cenamus · 18m ago
I'm somewhat sure the author actually mentioned that that was the intention, "Big Question Notation" and basically "apl" + 1. But he realized that it didn't match up
taolson · 56m ago
Supposedly it stands for "Big Questions Notation", but that could just be a backronym.
hinkley · 1h ago
I’m hoping they pronounce it “beacon” but the off by one error jokes also just write themselves.
rscho · 45m ago
No, it's 'bacon' :-)
ModernMech · 1h ago
They were following a Fibonacci sequence.
mlochbaum · 2h ago
It's just. So gross. Say it. Sudden interruption of slime coming up your throat. Like walking out the door into a spiderweb. Alphabetically I was mistaken but in every way that matters I was right.
pavlov · 2h ago
Hmm. I guess it if was BQM, it would be pronounced “bequem” which means comfortable in German.

And a comfortable APL is clearly an oxymoron.

mlochbaum · 2h ago
Ordinarily I'd make fun of the Germans for giving such an ugly name to a nice concept, but I've always found "comfortable" to be rather unpleasant too (the root "comfort" is fine).
hyperbrainer · 4h ago
I see it as beautiful the same way Galadriel would be beautiful as the Dark Queen. Utterly captivating and powerful, and yet something that should never be.
KineticLensman · 3h ago
"All shall love me and despair"
hinkley · 1h ago
You explain the evolution of CPUs but then don’t explain Rank Polymorphism.
jph00 · 1h ago
"Rank" means the number of dimensions of an array.

So "rank polymorphism" means being able to write expressions that work correctly regardless of how many dims the arrays involved have.

For example, in numpy you can write a function that handles both lists and matrices automatically, by taking advantage of broadcasting. (The J language takes this idea a lot further -- numpy is a fairly minimal implementation of the idea.)

IncreasePosts · 1h ago
It's just like polymorphism, only stinkier
rramadass · 3h ago
A previous relevant discussion since there is so little on Array Languages - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38981639
teleforce · 4h ago
Dlang does not has rank polymorphism and it handle array just fine with crazy speed in both compilation and execution.

It can be faster than Fortran based library that is still being used by Matlab, Rust and Julia [1].

It will be interesting to compare Mojo moblas BLAS library with GLAS library performance in D.

[1] Numeric age for D: Mir GLAS is faster than OpenBLAS and Eigen (2016):

http://blog.mir.dlang.io/glas/benchmark/openblas/2016/09/23/...

cdavid · 4h ago
If I understand correctly what is meant by rank polymorphism, it is not just about speed, but about ergonomics.

Taking examples I am familiar w/, it is key that you can add a scalar 1 to a rank 2 array in numpy/matllab without having to explicitly create a rank 2 array of 1s, and numpy somehow generalizes that (broadcasting). I understand other array programming languages have more advanced/generic versions of broadcasting, but I am not super familiar w/ them