Weird that you can even say "no". Usually the options are "yes" and "keep asking this until I click yes by accident".
rzzzt · 9h ago
They might change the "no" to "maybe later" later.
kotaKat · 9h ago
It’s assault by Google, as usual.
Some engineer probably finally got a little too much mace on a date and had to accept a “no” for once.
Jensson · 33m ago
Its not engineers deciding these things.
JimDabell · 9h ago
This is a ridiculous article.
There is a setting that lets Gemini learn from your data. This is not a setting to control whether Gemini can access your messages at all. Switching that setting off is not saying no to letting it control your messages and calls. It’s saying no to letting it learn from them. There is another setting you can use to disable access entirely.
kebokyo · 1h ago
I’m surprised by how much this article reads like an opinion piece even though it isn’t.
As generative AI becomes harder to ignore, broader in scope, and even more dominant as a business trend… the people whose jobs are to write about how generative AI affects our lives have just had enough. They’re smart enough to see the writing on the wall, and now they’re trying desperately to transfer that writing onto their pages.
greatgib · 8h ago
I got the notification from Google about that and that made me think that they really are now a bunch of assholes with a top big joint monopoly with Apple.
The notification indeed says that even if you turned everything off, they will allow themselves in your messages, especially WhatsApp messages that are not normally part of Google or Android.
And even if it looks like that the option to disable that exist, they don't tell you about that in the notification. It looks like that you have no choice.
To be clear, what I mean by that is that they only say:
If you don’t want to use these features, you can turn them off in the Apps settings page.
But what it means "in the Apps" settings page? Does it means a settings in each individual app that my prostitute itself to Gemini?and if yes, which exact apps should I go to, to do this manual process that I don't asked for?
p1anecrazy · 10h ago
Clickbait.
> Gemini now has a second set of toggles buried in its settings menu. You can go to Profile → Apps inside the Gemini app and manually disable access to Phone, Messages, WhatsApp, or Utilities. But these are turned on by default, even if you’ve disabled tracking in the past.
spacemadness · 2h ago
They really get you with those headlines don’t they? “Google arguably makes Gemini scraping and control confusing to turn off” isn’t quite the same.
genman · 9h ago
Perhaps exaggerated, but the point remains - saying No has been made considerably harder for a regular user.
ffsm8 · 8h ago
i strongly disagree with p1anecrazy original claim that this was clickbait.
I wouldn't even call that exaggerated whatsoever given these circumstances. If you say no, it still has access to them. the headline in no way claims that there is no way to disable access (likely temporarily) - it just says that if you disabled access before, gemini will still get access now.
> But these are turned on by default, even if you’ve disabled tracking in the past.
Jensson · 31m ago
Saying no to tracking doesn't mean you say no to access to other info. It is absolutely clickbait unless you can prove gemini stores that data to track you.
Maybe it should have defaulted off on these new settings if you disabled tracking, but this isn't tracking.
ttctciyf · 10h ago
Can we say "enshAItification"?
justoreply · 9h ago
I have "App activity" off, so everything is already off by default
readthenotes1 · 1h ago
So paragraph 2 means what?
" If you thought turning off Gemini Apps Activity meant turning off Gemini’s reach into your personal life, think again. Gemini is going live in your apps whether you like it or not."
resoluteteeth · 5h ago
Right now if activity tracking is off I think you can't even use Gemini to do stuff like set alarms so it's worse than Google Assistant with activity tracking off.
Since Google Assistant is going away I think this is an improvement for people who want to keep activity tracking off.
It would also be better if you could create calendar events from the web version of Gemini with activity tracking off so you aren't punished for not letting Google train Gemini on your data imo.
underdeserver · 10h ago
Sounds sus. Did anyone here get this notification?
mdhb · 10h ago
How the fuck is this going to fly in Europe with the data privacy laws?
nolok · 10h ago
Some sort of "stay on device" thing, the way Samsung already does with the (terrible) bixby and (sorta better) galaxy ai ?
They're fine with the few opt out and degraded service to them, their goal is the vast majority who will say yes.
lpcvoid · 10h ago
This is why you don't have Google services on your phone, kids.
Brought to you by a GrapheneOS fanboy.
Stiffly6471 · 10h ago
If my banking/payment app and my id app worked on grapheneOS i would also be using it.
That the biggest issue right now. Dependency of apps on gsf
sebtron · 10h ago
That is IMO a huge problem with these "apps". Every service that claims to be a bank should be accessible without forcing you into the Apple / Google duopoly.
attendant3446 · 6h ago
On Graphene, create another user and install sandboxed Google Play Services there. Don't login into Google account, use something like Aurora Store to get the apps. Most of the apps I have to use (mostly banks) work this way (I have a separate user with 5-6 apps that don't work without Google Play Services).
I would prefer these apps had a standalone web version, but sometimes it's not up to you what apps you have to use :(
Stop being so negative. I have seen instances of bank apps adding Graphene support after getting told about this…
malka1986 · 9h ago
I know because i tried.
aprilnya · 9h ago
so does that mean no one else should with their bank? I don’t see why you trying it with your bank has anything to do with me telling someone else to try it with theirs
Iolaum · 10h ago
As a GraphenOS user as well - I think you can say No even with Google Apps installed in GrapheneOS.
You don't need GrapheneOS or any other specific AOSP derivative for that, any of them will do. Just don't install any Google-specific bits on the device - use microG if you need to have something resembling Google services - and you're there. Even on stock devices with Google services you can get partly there by disabling anything you don't need, only enabling it when you happen upon some app which absolutely won't run without them but first check if you can replace that app with another or - better still - a web app which can replace it. How to disable Google services you asked? Why, using a script of course, launched from a Termux widget. Here's one way to do this, using a disable/enable script (one script, two hardlinked names) on a rooted device running some stock distribution. If you try this and your phone breaks you get to keep both pieces without extra cost - in other words this works for me but might not work for you:
~ $ cat .shortcuts/Google_Services\:enable
#!/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin/bash
PACKAGE="com.google.android.gms com.google.android.gms.policy_sidecar_aps com.google.android.gsf com.android.vending"
PATH="/data/data/com.termux/files/usr/bin:$PATH"
command=$(echo "$0"|cut -d: -f2)
pman () {
action=$1
shift
for package in $@; do
sudo pm $action $package
done
}
case $command in
disable|enable)
pman $command $PACKAGE
;;
*)
echo "command '$command' not supported"
;;
esac
exit 0
genman · 9h ago
It looks like people need a new legislation to protect against such abuses.
BiteCode_dev · 10h ago
You can't use gemini if you are not logged in into a google account.
This is one more good reason to never sign in on your android phone.
It's not as good as using graphene, but it's easier, less work, and you can't brick your phone.
The drawback, of course, is that you can't use your map, youtube or gmail account since signing in in any of those logs in the entire device.
But with microg, fdroid and aurora, it's very practical.
askl · 10h ago
How about just not having the Gemini app installed?
That seems even easier to do and also lets you continue using the actually useful google products.
surgical_fire · 9h ago
That's how I solved it so far.
That will only work until Google makes it impossible to uninstall.
frabcus · 10h ago
Presumably you can use them all in a browser?
seydor · 10h ago
why WhatsApp?
askl · 10h ago
Maybe because it's the app most of the world uses to communicate?
TheDong · 9h ago
Because apple hasn't released the android app for iMessage yet.
account-5 · 9h ago
Isn't this inevitable across all companies now? Apple will be doing this on their phones and devices. Facebook want to do this in your camera roll for media you've not shared with them. Microsoft are doing this in their OSs. This is the future.
99% of the user's won't care and will actually find benefit in this sort of thing.
Personally I hate it, the struggle for any sort of privacy just got a lot harder on phones for me. PC/laptop is easy, I use Linux. But for phone I need to either pay for expensive hardware and risk bricking it to install something like grapheneOS or buy cheap and disable all the Google stuff I can.
malka1986 · 9h ago
Thanks to my banks, i cannot use stuff like grapheneOS. Their app wont work on it.
Changing bank ? Well all other banks have the exact same issue in my country.
account-5 · 9h ago
My solution is to not do banking on my phone at all. My banking is done via a desktop browser.
But how long will this last? They're constantly pushing for me to download their app.
progval · 9h ago
Mine turned off SMS 2FA last month and forced me to install their mobile app. Which also required me to enable Google Cloud Messaging on my phone.
account-5 · 8h ago
So no one without an android or iPhone can use your bank?
malka1986 · 9h ago
Some operations, most notably confirming cc purchases online, can only be done using a mobile terminal for 'safety' reasons.
account-5 · 9h ago
That's definitely not the case for any bank I've ever used.
thaumasiotes · 9h ago
That is not true for my bank.
Also, "terminal"?
malka1986 · 9h ago
Ah sorry im old and french. 'terminal' used to mean 'user device' here.
In France, banking without a 'trusted' mobile phone is kinda hell.
Even accessing some stuff for the state (they call it 'france connect+) will require a 'real' android.
sebtron · 9h ago
It can be a special purpose device, it does not have to be a smartphone.
attendant3446 · 6h ago
I know some apps don't work on Graphene even with sandboxed Google Play Services, but I have most of the banking and payment apps work in a separate user. So far I had a good success rate on (mostly) de-Googled phone.
ttctciyf · 9h ago
Genuine question: does your bank not have a website you can use for that? (Wondering how your bank enables online for desktop/laptop users and/or folks without their app.)
(ETA:) My banks probably have apps, but I only use them via their websites, even on my phone (in a desperate pinch).
sebtron · 9h ago
The problem is they usually allow 2FA through their app. I am not sure if this is the case for OP, but it is for most online banks. Luckily my bank still provides a physical authentication device.
hpdigidrifter · 9h ago
I'm always amazed how all the banks I've used in Australia require either their own proprietary app or some bizarre closed source unvetted 3rd party TOTP implementation instead of just allowing TOTP.
cft · 9h ago
Banks and NFC have been a major obstacle for me to degoogle. Even when I rooted my phone, i could not pay with NFC. Apparently it's a common problem:
Some engineer probably finally got a little too much mace on a date and had to accept a “no” for once.
As generative AI becomes harder to ignore, broader in scope, and even more dominant as a business trend… the people whose jobs are to write about how generative AI affects our lives have just had enough. They’re smart enough to see the writing on the wall, and now they’re trying desperately to transfer that writing onto their pages.
The notification indeed says that even if you turned everything off, they will allow themselves in your messages, especially WhatsApp messages that are not normally part of Google or Android. And even if it looks like that the option to disable that exist, they don't tell you about that in the notification. It looks like that you have no choice.
To be clear, what I mean by that is that they only say: If you don’t want to use these features, you can turn them off in the Apps settings page.
But what it means "in the Apps" settings page? Does it means a settings in each individual app that my prostitute itself to Gemini?and if yes, which exact apps should I go to, to do this manual process that I don't asked for?
> Gemini now has a second set of toggles buried in its settings menu. You can go to Profile → Apps inside the Gemini app and manually disable access to Phone, Messages, WhatsApp, or Utilities. But these are turned on by default, even if you’ve disabled tracking in the past.
I wouldn't even call that exaggerated whatsoever given these circumstances. If you say no, it still has access to them. the headline in no way claims that there is no way to disable access (likely temporarily) - it just says that if you disabled access before, gemini will still get access now.
> But these are turned on by default, even if you’ve disabled tracking in the past.
Maybe it should have defaulted off on these new settings if you disabled tracking, but this isn't tracking.
" If you thought turning off Gemini Apps Activity meant turning off Gemini’s reach into your personal life, think again. Gemini is going live in your apps whether you like it or not."
Since Google Assistant is going away I think this is an improvement for people who want to keep activity tracking off.
It would also be better if you could create calendar events from the web version of Gemini with activity tracking off so you aren't punished for not letting Google train Gemini on your data imo.
They're fine with the few opt out and degraded service to them, their goal is the vast majority who will say yes.
Brought to you by a GrapheneOS fanboy.
That the biggest issue right now. Dependency of apps on gsf
I would prefer these apps had a standalone web version, but sometimes it's not up to you what apps you have to use :(
https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-gu...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/22/google-cs...
This is one more good reason to never sign in on your android phone.
It's not as good as using graphene, but it's easier, less work, and you can't brick your phone.
The drawback, of course, is that you can't use your map, youtube or gmail account since signing in in any of those logs in the entire device.
But with microg, fdroid and aurora, it's very practical.
That seems even easier to do and also lets you continue using the actually useful google products.
That will only work until Google makes it impossible to uninstall.
99% of the user's won't care and will actually find benefit in this sort of thing.
Personally I hate it, the struggle for any sort of privacy just got a lot harder on phones for me. PC/laptop is easy, I use Linux. But for phone I need to either pay for expensive hardware and risk bricking it to install something like grapheneOS or buy cheap and disable all the Google stuff I can.
Changing bank ? Well all other banks have the exact same issue in my country.
But how long will this last? They're constantly pushing for me to download their app.
Also, "terminal"?
In France, banking without a 'trusted' mobile phone is kinda hell.
Even accessing some stuff for the state (they call it 'france connect+) will require a 'real' android.
(ETA:) My banks probably have apps, but I only use them via their websites, even on my phone (in a desperate pinch).
https://www.reddit.com/r/foss/s/5myzcPg2rw