Cross posting in the right place instead of the other thread:
At first I thought this sounded like a blend of the virtualisation framework with a firecracker style lightweight kernel.
This project had its own kernel, but it also seems to be able to use the firecracker one. I wonder what the advantages are. Even smaller? Making use of some apple silicon properties?
Has anyone tried it already and is it fast? Compared to podman on Linux or Docker Desktop for Mac?
gardaani · 22m ago
I have been using lima to run Linux VMs on macOS. This new Apple tool looks very similar and I might replace lima with it.
jzelinskie · 9h ago
Container runs OCI (docker) compatible by creating lightweight VMs.
This repository houses the command-line interface which is powered by containerization[0], the Swift framework wrapping Virtualization.framework to implement an OCI runtime.
I am going to show my ineptitude by admitting this, for the life of me I couldn’t get around to implement the Mac Os native way to run linux VMs and used vm-ware fusion instead. [0]
I’m glad this more accessible package is available vs docker desktop on mac os or the aforementioned, likely to be abandoned vmware non enterprise license.
VMware Fusion is a perfectly good way of running VMs, and IMO has a better and more native UI than any other solution (Parallels, UTM, etc)
stephenr · 32m ago
This is a weird take to me.
VMWare Fusion very much feels like a cheap one-time port of VMWare Workstation to macOS. On a modern macOS it stands out very clearly with numerous elements that are reminiscent of the Aqua days: icon styles, the tabs-within-tabs structure, etc.
Fusion also has had some pretty horrific bugs related to guest networking causing indefinite hangs in the VM(s) at startup.
Parallels isn't always perfect sailing but put it this way: I have had a paid license for both (and VBox installed), for many years to build vagrant images, but when it comes to actually running a VM for purposes other than building an image, I almost exclusively turn to Parallels.
(Normally we'd merge them but it seems there are significant if subtle differences between these)
punnerud · 56m ago
Does this enable running containers next apps to iOS and MacOS downloaded from AppStore?
90s_dev · 3h ago
How actually is Swift as a Rust alternative? Is it feasible?
The only gripe I remember with it is that all its APIs are weird.
Like instead of normal names, you have Apple-legacy-names for methods/classes.
written-beyond · 52m ago
Rust and Swift have done a fair bit of borrowing from each other "pun intended".
I've never got the chance to work with swift since their cross platform compatibility and "server-side swift" have been recent introductions.
In terms comparison, it really is the closest you can get to a rust that ARC BOX's everything (which has/ is planned to come down when lifetimes come in). You get a good runtime and good performance.
tcmart14 · 1h ago
I can't speak to performance since I don't really race languages. But as far as feel and what not, it is very similar. But there is also a pretty good overlap in people who worked on Rust and people who worked in Swift. Graydon worked on both. So Swift has a lot of similarities with Rust. The way I usually word it is, Swift is like having C# with mostly everything you like about Rust.
I believe a lot of the legacy names come from when your interfacing with platform APIs like UIKit and such if you have to and they haven't quiet gotten a bump from their Objective-C APIs to have more swifty-APIs.
EPWN3D · 3h ago
Depends on what you're doing. If you want to write systems code, Swift is very allocation-happy and will probably not be the best fit. They're trying to make an embedded Swift, but progress is pretty slow, since that's not going to be something that gets anyone promoted.
If you just want to write A Thing, then it's up to your individual taste, what's available in the ecosystem, etc.
sverhagen · 1h ago
Is it smart to call the implementation after the category, or am I misunderstanding what is going on? Surely they won't be able to trademark this?
wmf · 1h ago
It's not a product; it's a command line tool that's (more or less) part of the OS. It doesn't need a fancy name.
I disagree, they are different, and that (containerization, not container here) is the more novel/interesting one imo. It'd be nice to focus the discussion more (though at present there are many confused comments there that think they're discussing the container tool).
dang · 1h ago
Whoops, I merged them but you've persuaded me to unmerge them. This will take a bit of time.
Edit: reverted!
n42 · 5h ago
Oh, like OP I didn’t see the difference. I believe the difference is:
Container is a CLI tool
Containerization is a framework
OJFord · 5h ago
Yes, container is like `docker` CLI: 'I am a developer and I want to run a container'; containerization is for packaging OCI image container sidecars into Swift .apps - you could distribute your app with postgres 'built in' (but running as a container), user doesn't need to ensure it's installed and running separately or anything.
At first I thought this sounded like a blend of the virtualisation framework with a firecracker style lightweight kernel.
This project had its own kernel, but it also seems to be able to use the firecracker one. I wonder what the advantages are. Even smaller? Making use of some apple silicon properties?
Has anyone tried it already and is it fast? Compared to podman on Linux or Docker Desktop for Mac?
This repository houses the command-line interface which is powered by containerization[0], the Swift framework wrapping Virtualization.framework to implement an OCI runtime.
[0]: https://github.com/apple/containerization
I’m glad this more accessible package is available vs docker desktop on mac os or the aforementioned, likely to be abandoned vmware non enterprise license.
[0] [apple virtualization docs](https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/cre...)
VMWare Fusion very much feels like a cheap one-time port of VMWare Workstation to macOS. On a modern macOS it stands out very clearly with numerous elements that are reminiscent of the Aqua days: icon styles, the tabs-within-tabs structure, etc.
Fusion also has had some pretty horrific bugs related to guest networking causing indefinite hangs in the VM(s) at startup.
Parallels isn't always perfect sailing but put it this way: I have had a paid license for both (and VBox installed), for many years to build vagrant images, but when it comes to actually running a VM for purposes other than building an image, I almost exclusively turn to Parallels.
Containerization is a Swift package for running Linux containers on macOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44229348 - June 2025 (158 comments)
Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44226978 - June 2025 (346 comments)
(Normally we'd merge them but it seems there are significant if subtle differences between these)
The only gripe I remember with it is that all its APIs are weird.
Like instead of normal names, you have Apple-legacy-names for methods/classes.
I've never got the chance to work with swift since their cross platform compatibility and "server-side swift" have been recent introductions.
In terms comparison, it really is the closest you can get to a rust that ARC BOX's everything (which has/ is planned to come down when lifetimes come in). You get a good runtime and good performance.
I believe a lot of the legacy names come from when your interfacing with platform APIs like UIKit and such if you have to and they haven't quiet gotten a bump from their Objective-C APIs to have more swifty-APIs.
If you just want to write A Thing, then it's up to your individual taste, what's available in the ecosystem, etc.
Edit: reverted!
Container is a CLI tool
Containerization is a framework