Not sure why this hasn't triggered a discussion, I thought a lot of readers include parents of young(er) children?
I totally lost my teen to TikTok and deeply regret succumbing to their (and my wife's) pressure to give them an iPhone at 14 (they're 16 now). It's like hours upon hours of mindless scrolling, with occasional gaming sprinkled in.
My youngest is 10 and has a dependency on school iPad (school was giving up iPads during COVID when they were teaching remotely). We have to monitor their usage closely and unfortunately angry outbursts (ie when it's time to stop) are a regular occurrence.
The 10yo does have a lot of extra-curricular activities so having a cellphone would be a big help (to know where they are and give them an option to contact us if anything happens). But there's just no way I'm giving them a smartphone anytime soon.
I think there's sooo many parents in my position and do hope that some of these devices might be able to help.
8note · 1h ago
i cant imagine the effort it takes a parent to drag their kids out of tiktok and into playing video games
hagbard_c · 50m ago
Block the shit already then. Block it at the router, get rid of that fruit phone and get something you can have more control over - i.e. a rooted AOSP-derived Android distribution with a few extra tools installed - if you child absolutely has to have a 'smart' phone. If not and he - or most likely she given the TT addiction - absolutely needs a phone there are plenty of 'dumb' phones available to fit those needs. Yes yes yes, I know all about the supposed ostracisation caused by teens not having a phone but if the alternative is to give up your child to the CCP and the tech moguls I'd choose the former and send her/him to a different school.
Here's what I´d do if a 'smart' phone is a requirement:
- ditch the fruit phone, get a device which is supported by LineageOS.
- root it. Install Timelimit [1]. Install the required server somewhere under your control. Make sure Timelimit is configured as 'device administrator' so it can not be removed or circumvented. Install it on your phone as well and maybe on your wife's - if she can be trusted not to give in too easily when your child wants to have more time than you allotted. If she is a pushover in this respect you'll have to take the lead and suffer the consequences of having your child and your wife see you as the big bad wolf but so be it.
- No google account on that phone, no play store. Install F-Droid and Aurora Store. Install AFWall (firewall) and configure it to only allow those apps which really need to have network access. Put a password on AFWall so the firewall can only be edited by those who know it - and make sure your daughter/son does not get to know it.
- She/he can now only run those apps which you allow him or her to run. You can remotely add and remove apps which can be run, add or remove time for those apps/categories/... (the thing can be configured just how you want it, from a single 'phone can be used for X minutes' to a hierarchy of categories each with their own rules on when, how long and how long in a single stretch after which follows a forced break apps in those categories can be used.
- Timelimit is not a remote control tool, you can not see what your child is doing with the device. I don't like spying on my children so I intentionally do not run such tools but they do exist. I'd advice against using them unless you suspect foul play (grooming etc) because I consider these to be a breach of trust.
The combination of Timelimit and the firewall give good control over which apps can be used and when/in what way they are used. As long as there is a browser on the device it can be used to reach undesired services like Tiktok so that is something to keep in mind: limit generic browser access.
Best would be to simply not give the child a 'smart' phone. Second best is something like this, a device which you can configure to reduce the incentives for those 'hours of mindless scrolling' - don't allow such apps and put forced breaks on browsers, e.g. 5 minutes of access, 15 minutes forced break. If the child needs to have longer access for some reason let her explain why and grant it piecemeal.
This is what I do for my 14yo daughter who also 'had to have a phone' according to my wife. There are no social media apps on the thing, she has access to our own XMPP server through Conversations, she can make photos, play music, do some browsing (with forced breaks) and has a total of 30 minutes of screen time per day for non-essential purposes. She has more time for reading books or playing music and actual phone time is unlimited as is the time for e.g. the public transport app which she needs to get to school.
Root out the plague of Tiktok et al, root and branch. You're the parent, you have the power to act, use it. On my network it is blocked at both the DNS as well as the IP layer - first using ipsets with iptables, now using nftables sets.
Devices can help but only if the parents are willing to use their parental authority - a dirty word according to many 'enlightened experts' whose 'expertise' is partly responsible for the mess we're in now - so use it. Ditch the fruit phone because it does not allow you the control you need. Don´t use a stock Android because it does not allow it either. Don't put a Google account on the phone, it is not necessary.
Will your daughter like it? No, not initially, not if she was used to having unlimited access. She might try to find ways to get around the limits so you'll have to check your network for unknown devices since she might borrow a friend's old phone to get her fix. If you find her doing this you of course take away that phone but you should not get angry with her. Limit her phone time for a bit so she knows she did wrong but keep it at that. Encourage her to do things with all the time she now has since she is no longer doom-scrolling, find other things to do - hobbies etc, these used to be common but seem to be rare nowadays. Eventually she'll get used to not being controlled by her phone and she'll probably end up liking the freedom this gives but to get there you'll have to bite through that sour apple.
I managed to keep my children (14 and 20) away from 'social' networks so I probably had and have an easier task than what awaits you but I think the effort it worth it. No good comes from having your children mind-controlled by the nefarious actors behind 'social' media. I hope you give them the good example by not using these 'services' either?
This isn't what I expected from this article, this seems to me less about "alternative devices", and more about devices that are aiming specifically to keep kids safe, which deserves a focus in and of itself.
But also, most of these devices are just implementing software, the device isn't the important part.
There is truly some interesting work happening in device world atm, and I think it is a combination of the desire for a change of behaviors from our phones, as well as new possibilities of what devices can do.
I work in the neurotech/sleeptech space, and we're one of a few companies that are building consumer level EEG devices. The others are trying to sell, "fall asleep faster" tech (with limited scientific backing), we're focused on enhancing the restorative function of sleep (https://affectablesleep.com). Neurotech in general is really interesting right now with a few other use cases around measuring focus and specifically re-training focus (https://www.neurodelabs.com/), depression treatment (https://www.flowneuroscience.com/), and many more.
I also find the augmented reality glasses space really interesting.
To me, these are "Alternative Devices", the article really just points out "different phones".
Part of the reason, I believe, we are seeing these new devices, along with the need, is that it is getting less expensive to develop and prototype small scale devices.
When I started programming, the LAMP stack was new, and people we raving about how easy it was to get started, then came RoR, then node, and with each new change in language, from download to working code got easier and easier.
Hardware is still challenging, but I suspect we may be at the LAMP stack level, and over the next decade, it will also become easier.
spondylosaurus · 8h ago
> Bark places calls to law enforcement when it receives an alert about a kid threatening to harm themselves or others, he told me, but those alerts are reviewed by a human first. “We’re not swatting kids,” he said.
So any messages your kid sends to their friends could get routed to some random employee at this third-party service? Yikes.
Proofread0592 · 4h ago
I have a very skeptical worldview, and whenever I see any of these companies that offer to "protect your kids" by managing and monitoring their data, I always just assume they are gathering data to sell to advertisers.
And sure maybe they don't go into business with that mentality, but when the company inevitably goes under, the first thing they're going to do is sell off the data to the highest bidder.
drillsteps5 · 4h ago
Worse yet, I guarantee that some of the detection is done by feeding the kids' messages to cloud LLMs. Thanks, no thanks
bdangubic · 4h ago
if you gave your kid a device this is not an issue already. you are skeptical here but not when you allowed a child a device…?
mjevans · 1h ago
I'd say the parents should moderate it... but I've seen how busy work and everything else leaves modern parents.
Society really needs to adjust to leave time for people to be humans, to correctly raise and guide the next generation into quality adults. We're really going to regret it when we end up in that cyberpunk dystopia ruled by corporations.
jhbadger · 38m ago
Or maybe people are just overeacting. In the 1950s there was a movement that claimed that comic books were evil and rotting kids' minds. When I was growing up in the 1970s and 1980s it was TV. Then it was video games. Now it's social media, Kids like to do things that (at least to parents) look like wasting time. But if the parents look back to their own childhoods, they weren't using their time that productively either.
amelius · 1h ago
Can't we have a law saying that all devices should be general purpose computing devices, owned by the owner? Then any device can be turned into an "alternative" device, whatever you think that means.
Aerbil313 · 44m ago
I know I am an outlier case, but I am unable to function in society (or even individually) with an unrestricted smartphone. I'll literally not eat, not drink water, not sleep, miss all my classes, final exams, I'll miss the plane I booked a month earlier. I am 20yo, not a child either, but I have AuDHD. For years now I've implemented (often custom) solutions that allow me to use WhatsApp and $BANK_APP on a smartphone without having access to any sort of infinitely scrollable content. I'm living a fine life today - a moderately successful college student. Give me an unrestricted smartphone and you wouldn't be able to recognize my face after 3 days. In a week I'll likely be sick due to decreased immunity because of poor sleep, lack of nutrition & hydration and lack of self-care.
I don't think I'm alone in this, I've certainly seen similar anecdotes over the years. People who literally can't live with access to unrestricted smartphones - we exist. I'm glad to see these sort of "Alternative Device" movements - it surely is my longstanding dream to build a company that produces just that, a smart device you can't abuse, a bicycle for the mind with support wheels. Not everybody is healthy enough to ride a normal bicycle - people with disabilities will fall over and injure themselves if you put them on one, or worse, if you force them to use one.
I understand the self-control aspect - I'm trying to build it with various approaches. I hope I'll get it figured out before my 30s. It's something so many healthy neurotypical people take for granted, yet there is a minority who just can't.
I totally lost my teen to TikTok and deeply regret succumbing to their (and my wife's) pressure to give them an iPhone at 14 (they're 16 now). It's like hours upon hours of mindless scrolling, with occasional gaming sprinkled in.
My youngest is 10 and has a dependency on school iPad (school was giving up iPads during COVID when they were teaching remotely). We have to monitor their usage closely and unfortunately angry outbursts (ie when it's time to stop) are a regular occurrence.
The 10yo does have a lot of extra-curricular activities so having a cellphone would be a big help (to know where they are and give them an option to contact us if anything happens). But there's just no way I'm giving them a smartphone anytime soon.
I think there's sooo many parents in my position and do hope that some of these devices might be able to help.
Here's what I´d do if a 'smart' phone is a requirement:
- ditch the fruit phone, get a device which is supported by LineageOS.
- root it. Install Timelimit [1]. Install the required server somewhere under your control. Make sure Timelimit is configured as 'device administrator' so it can not be removed or circumvented. Install it on your phone as well and maybe on your wife's - if she can be trusted not to give in too easily when your child wants to have more time than you allotted. If she is a pushover in this respect you'll have to take the lead and suffer the consequences of having your child and your wife see you as the big bad wolf but so be it.
- No google account on that phone, no play store. Install F-Droid and Aurora Store. Install AFWall (firewall) and configure it to only allow those apps which really need to have network access. Put a password on AFWall so the firewall can only be edited by those who know it - and make sure your daughter/son does not get to know it.
- She/he can now only run those apps which you allow him or her to run. You can remotely add and remove apps which can be run, add or remove time for those apps/categories/... (the thing can be configured just how you want it, from a single 'phone can be used for X minutes' to a hierarchy of categories each with their own rules on when, how long and how long in a single stretch after which follows a forced break apps in those categories can be used.
- Timelimit is not a remote control tool, you can not see what your child is doing with the device. I don't like spying on my children so I intentionally do not run such tools but they do exist. I'd advice against using them unless you suspect foul play (grooming etc) because I consider these to be a breach of trust.
The combination of Timelimit and the firewall give good control over which apps can be used and when/in what way they are used. As long as there is a browser on the device it can be used to reach undesired services like Tiktok so that is something to keep in mind: limit generic browser access.
Best would be to simply not give the child a 'smart' phone. Second best is something like this, a device which you can configure to reduce the incentives for those 'hours of mindless scrolling' - don't allow such apps and put forced breaks on browsers, e.g. 5 minutes of access, 15 minutes forced break. If the child needs to have longer access for some reason let her explain why and grant it piecemeal.
This is what I do for my 14yo daughter who also 'had to have a phone' according to my wife. There are no social media apps on the thing, she has access to our own XMPP server through Conversations, she can make photos, play music, do some browsing (with forced breaks) and has a total of 30 minutes of screen time per day for non-essential purposes. She has more time for reading books or playing music and actual phone time is unlimited as is the time for e.g. the public transport app which she needs to get to school.
Root out the plague of Tiktok et al, root and branch. You're the parent, you have the power to act, use it. On my network it is blocked at both the DNS as well as the IP layer - first using ipsets with iptables, now using nftables sets.
Devices can help but only if the parents are willing to use their parental authority - a dirty word according to many 'enlightened experts' whose 'expertise' is partly responsible for the mess we're in now - so use it. Ditch the fruit phone because it does not allow you the control you need. Don´t use a stock Android because it does not allow it either. Don't put a Google account on the phone, it is not necessary.
Will your daughter like it? No, not initially, not if she was used to having unlimited access. She might try to find ways to get around the limits so you'll have to check your network for unknown devices since she might borrow a friend's old phone to get her fix. If you find her doing this you of course take away that phone but you should not get angry with her. Limit her phone time for a bit so she knows she did wrong but keep it at that. Encourage her to do things with all the time she now has since she is no longer doom-scrolling, find other things to do - hobbies etc, these used to be common but seem to be rare nowadays. Eventually she'll get used to not being controlled by her phone and she'll probably end up liking the freedom this gives but to get there you'll have to bite through that sour apple.
I managed to keep my children (14 and 20) away from 'social' networks so I probably had and have an easier task than what awaits you but I think the effort it worth it. No good comes from having your children mind-controlled by the nefarious actors behind 'social' media. I hope you give them the good example by not using these 'services' either?
[1] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.timelimit.android.aosp.di...
But also, most of these devices are just implementing software, the device isn't the important part.
There is truly some interesting work happening in device world atm, and I think it is a combination of the desire for a change of behaviors from our phones, as well as new possibilities of what devices can do.
I work in the neurotech/sleeptech space, and we're one of a few companies that are building consumer level EEG devices. The others are trying to sell, "fall asleep faster" tech (with limited scientific backing), we're focused on enhancing the restorative function of sleep (https://affectablesleep.com). Neurotech in general is really interesting right now with a few other use cases around measuring focus and specifically re-training focus (https://www.neurodelabs.com/), depression treatment (https://www.flowneuroscience.com/), and many more.
I also find the augmented reality glasses space really interesting.
To me, these are "Alternative Devices", the article really just points out "different phones".
Part of the reason, I believe, we are seeing these new devices, along with the need, is that it is getting less expensive to develop and prototype small scale devices.
When I started programming, the LAMP stack was new, and people we raving about how easy it was to get started, then came RoR, then node, and with each new change in language, from download to working code got easier and easier.
Hardware is still challenging, but I suspect we may be at the LAMP stack level, and over the next decade, it will also become easier.
So any messages your kid sends to their friends could get routed to some random employee at this third-party service? Yikes.
And sure maybe they don't go into business with that mentality, but when the company inevitably goes under, the first thing they're going to do is sell off the data to the highest bidder.
Society really needs to adjust to leave time for people to be humans, to correctly raise and guide the next generation into quality adults. We're really going to regret it when we end up in that cyberpunk dystopia ruled by corporations.
I don't think I'm alone in this, I've certainly seen similar anecdotes over the years. People who literally can't live with access to unrestricted smartphones - we exist. I'm glad to see these sort of "Alternative Device" movements - it surely is my longstanding dream to build a company that produces just that, a smart device you can't abuse, a bicycle for the mind with support wheels. Not everybody is healthy enough to ride a normal bicycle - people with disabilities will fall over and injure themselves if you put them on one, or worse, if you force them to use one.
I understand the self-control aspect - I'm trying to build it with various approaches. I hope I'll get it figured out before my 30s. It's something so many healthy neurotypical people take for granted, yet there is a minority who just can't.